Author Topic: Hristo and Il-2 (long) (Read 774 times)

Hristo · « **on:** August 28, 2001, 01:34:00 PM »

Hi

My name is Hristo and I am an Il-2 addict. Please let me explain.

I was very cautious, if not sceptical about Il-2. It was a boxed sim, from unknown authors. When Leonid brought up the news 2 years ago, I didn't really expect it to be a 1st class sim.

Only rarely I have watched news about its development. No, I was never a beta tester and I am not a cheeleader (for now).

When the demo came out, I hesitated because of big download. Of course, I tried the 109 first. Fantastic looking cockpit, something we could never get in AH. Metric system at last. Revi gunsight. The 109 cockpit I saw on photos was finally here.

After taking off I tried some aerobatics. What ?! This can't be true - this beast rolls as fast as AH 190. Hmmmmmm, big hmmmmm. Did Oleg mess up the FM ? Did he make a concession to playability. For years I have been flying 109s who simply couldn't or wouldn't roll at higher speeds. What is this ? I trusted to data from Western sources and started to suspect the Il-2 FM. Still, I wanted to play the game for fun.

Fantastic clouds. Flyby sounds with Doppler effect. And gunnery. Oh my God ! Imagine the heresy - someone dared to model different rounds per gun ! In Il-2 you actually fire 3 types of rounds from your MG 151/20. And each of them has a tracer version. Each of the rounds has different effect on impact and different trajectory. 109 has slats finally. They mess up your gunnery when you get too slow and go for a shot. As mentioned by pilots.

The tail wheel. You have to lock it. If you fire guns while plane is parked, the wheel turns 180 degrees while plane goes backwards. Now that is a dedication to detail !

But what about the roll rate ? Do Il-2 planes compress. I was still sceptical about it. There is compression - you can see it by watching stick defelction in cockpit while you move your joystick. There is no magic pull out auto trim. In fact, you only have elevator trim in cockpit.

I went to lok for an explanation for the heretical 109 rollrate. Yes, there were threads on boards and at first time I saw someone mentioning TsAGI reports. Along tiwh NV VVS something (sorry, don't remember the name). Oleg was defending his stand - 109 rollrate is correct, it is modeled by data from Soviet sources. Who to believe ? British tests on 109E and 109G-6/R-6 ? Or two Soviet institutions ? (I heard that they were independant - if test results weren't close to each other, 3rd party would do the tests, while authors of wrong results would be punished. Typical

).

Now, with such a dedication do detail - would Oleg do a concession to playability and make a 109 roll like a 190 (according to Western sources) ? He admitted the P-39 rolls twice as fast as it should and that it will be corrected. I'd rather have longer WEP on 109 than improved rollrate, btw. (Right now WEP on 109 overheats your engine in 1 minute and if you don't lay off the throttle, your engine might be damaged to full stop).

The historical aspect. Enough said.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #1 on:** August 28, 2001, 01:44:00 PM »

Give it time, you'll be whining about the LW getting an unfair shake over there too. Some folks are just too predictable.

Hristo · « **Reply #2 on:** August 28, 2001, 01:52:00 PM »

Now Rip, was that nice ?

All you can say to my post is that I am simply a whiner ?

And what does your post make you ? A cheerleader perhaps ?

I will say this: Il-2 (unlucky choice of name, btw) beats AH hands down in important aspects as gunnery, realistic cockpits, damage model and graphics. Of FMs I can only speculate.

I believed in AH for so long. My AH bubble stood up against WW2OLbug. But now it has bursted. Il-2 is a better sim. Period.

Toad · « **Reply #3 on:** August 28, 2001, 02:03:00 PM »

It's a wonderful world when you can fly what you like, like what you fly and not worry about what the other guy is flying, isn't it?

Enjoy it! This is REALLY why Gates and Jobs and those guys were working on PC's to begin with.

jihad · « **Reply #4 on:** August 28, 2001, 02:28:00 PM »

(Right now WEP on 109 overheats your engine in 1 minute and if you don't lay off the throttle, your engine might be damaged to full stop)

TIP:

Open the radiator flaps with the "R" key, it will cool down the engine quickly at some expense to aircraft performance.

Engine management is something I've seen people ask for in AH and WB but I never thought it would be worth adding to the games.

I've changed my opinion as it forces you to pay attention and fly the planes instead of just firewalling the throttle. It would be a nice feature to have in AH IMO.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #5 on:** August 28, 2001, 02:31:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hristo:
Now Rip, was that nice ?

All you can say to my post is that I am simply a whiner ?

And what does your post make you ? A cheerleader perhaps ?

I will say this: Il-2 (unlucky choice of name, btw) beats AH hands down in important aspects as gunnery, realistic cockpits, damage model and graphics. Of FMs I can only speculate.

I believed in AH for so long. My AH bubble stood up against WW2OLbug. But now it has bursted. Il-2 is a better sim. Period.

Christ, can't an ex-squaddie even see the 'wink wink' smiley at the end of the post? You've grown a wee bit sensitive since you flew under my command, Hristo.

Hristo · « **Reply #6 on:** August 28, 2001, 04:02:00 PM »

Sorry, I did not get it

airspro · « **Reply #7 on:** August 28, 2001, 04:14:00 PM »

I tried it out again last night with the "open gl" driver , plus tuned the rudder down "alot" and it's much nicer than I first thought .

Nice to hear your take on it , will be following updated reports as the beta progresses .

Hristo · « **Reply #8 on:** August 28, 2001, 04:42:00 PM »

WOW, wea...Jihad ! The cowl flaps are a blessing !

Thanks

jihad · « **Reply #9 on:** August 28, 2001, 10:27:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hristo:
WOW, wea...Jihad ! The cowl flaps are a blessing !

Thanks

and:

Now that is a dedication to detail !

Your welcome, try using the F2 key to check out the cowl/radiator flaps in operation.

I've had the beta for awhile and the more I play it the more *little* details I find, heh the pilots head even moves if you put it on auto pilot to watch the dogfight in external view.

When it goes gold watch out for my Yak-3!

[ 08-28-2001: Message edited by: jihad ]

-aper- · « **Reply #10 on:** August 28, 2001, 10:47:00 PM »

I'd like to point out some things about FM. I'm not going to speak about roll rates - these things can be adjusted quickly, but about feeling of flight and stalls/spins behaviour of the planes. From that point of view Il-2's FM is far better (need some tweaks though) than in WB or AH. It's a completelly new approach to the modelling of the dynamics of flight and IT ROCKS.

DeeZCamp · « **Reply #11 on:** August 28, 2001, 11:49:00 PM »

Agreed Apr..

~Caligula~ · « **Reply #12 on:** August 29, 2001, 04:16:00 AM »

Quote

I've had the beta for awhile and the more I play it the more *little* details I find, heh the pilots head even moves if you put it on auto pilot to watch the dogfight in external view.

I`m not sure if it`s included in the demo,but if so check out the wires moving the rudder and the elevators on the U2 (Po2).That`s really something.
Noticed the trimm stay level on the airelons,the little indicator moving up and down as You retract or lower the gears in the IL-2?(the actual plane in the game)
And the list goes on and on.
Best sim up to date,no doubt.
If it goes MMPOG....god help HTC,and all others in the busisness.

Staga · « **Reply #13 on:** August 29, 2001, 05:23:00 AM »

If I remember right also ailerons in 109 (at least in some models) turned downward few degrees when lowering flaps and gears. Maximum was 11 degrees afair.

[ 08-29-2001: Message edited by: Staga ]

texace · « **Reply #14 on:** August 29, 2001, 10:59:00 AM »

Yes it will be great as a boxed sim, but if it went MMP, it would flop. No game in the world can support those graphics and calculate the position of 500 people and stay at a playable framerate, unless you have a 3.0 GHz comp with over 1000MB or RAM and a T3.