Bombers being able to shoot while on runway

[Kermit de frog]

If you up a formation of b17s, you are able to use the guns and shoot people without ever getting off the ground.

I hope this bug gets fixed.  It's been around for a very long time and some of my squaddies are very distrubed by this type of action.

I have no film of this, nor do I intend on producing one or telling people how to do this.  Many people already know how to do this.

Please do not pass this thread up as something untrue.


I know this may not be a high priority on their list, but I just hope that it is put on their list, even if it is at the bottom.


I hope by posting that I'm able to help contribute something good to HTC.

[Clifra Jones]

Is this not the case with any other bomber?

Were RL bomber guns disabled prior to take off?

Did someone shoot you down in there bomber while you were trying to vulch them?

Did someone land a bomber on an opposing field and was shooting planes as they spawned?

I don't think it is untrue I just don't see what your crying about.

A motionless bomber on a runway should not be to difficult to dispose of.

[Spatula]

I thought they fixed that ages ago to stop the ack-staring?

[Kermit de frog]

Originally posted by Clifra Jones
Is this not the case with any other bomber?

Were RL bomber guns disabled prior to take off?

Did someone shoot you down in there bomber while you were trying to vulch them?

Did someone land a bomber on an opposing field and was shooting planes as they spawned?

I don't think it is untrue I just don't see what your crying about.

A motionless bomber on a runway should not be to difficult to dispose of.

Let's analyze your statement line by line okay?
Here goes:

Correct, other formation bombers have this bug too.  I agree with your first statement.

No, RL bomber guns were not disabled prior to take off.  But I'm sure you knew that.

No, I was not vulching, neither was I shot down by a bomber on the runway while vulching, nor has a bomber shot me down while he was on the runway.

As far as I know, no one is landing at enemy airfields in bombers and shooting down uppers.

You feel as though I am crying, but I disagree.  Opinion vs opinion.

Lastly, you state that "A motionless bomber on a runway should not be to difficult to dispose of.", but I disagree with that statement.  The degree of difficulty is what I disagree with primarily.  Here is why.

You have to shoot down 2 of the 3 bombers.  They are stationary, but require a lot of ammo to blow up.  Remember, you must blow them up and not just knock a wing off.  Also, they may up as many times as they wish.  They are able to get a new set of bombers in less than 1 second after dying.

The reason I believe HTC disables the guns on bombers while on the ground is to prevent them from being used at mobile AAA units.

Please respond to my statements CliffRa.

Abusing a glitch in the game to ones advantage is unethical.

[Chalenge]

A motionless bomber is the easiest thing in the game to kill since the cockpit is stationary. Three cannon rounds or about twenty machinegun rounds will do the job but rockets are even quicker.

[Kermit de frog]

What if you have no ord because you dropped all your ord on town.

You now only have bullets to kill the bomber.  

Now imagine the bomber shooting back at you when he's on the runway.

Now imagine you are able to shoot him down quickly and dont ever get hit by his bullets.   The bomber can spawn very quickly after death and shoot at you while you are climbing away.  You only have so many bullets.  And the whole time, other fighters are upping too.

Is it me, or do people not see the whole picture of this problem?

[loser]

Kermit do you have trouble killing PT boats spawning?

I know I dont, and GASP!!!!!!! THEY SHOOT BACK!

I personally feel that it is absoloutely absurd to disable buff guns on the ground. I have felt this way since the moment it was done.

Dont want to be shot at by the mobile AAA platforms? Drop the BHs just like you would the VH.

Kermit repeat these lines you typed to yourself: (let's do some "line by line analysis")

"You now only have bullets to kill the bomber. "  

-and what do they have to kill you?

"Now imagine the bomber shooting back at you when he's on the runway."

-Big time (say that one REALLY slowly to yourself.)


"Now imagine you are able to shoot him down quickly and dont ever get hit by his bullets. The bomber can spawn very quickly after death and shoot at you while you are climbing away. You only have so many bullets. And the whole time, other fighters are upping too."

-But you werent vulching right? Maybe you werent at the time but would like to be able to unabated if you chose too?


Am I missing the big picture?

If the big picture is anything but you want to be able to shoot at targets without being shot back at, then yes..im totally missing it.

[Kermit de frog]

Hey sir..err boy.

Listen up.

I think guns on the bombers should be disabled to prevent users from using them as mobile AAA.  Bombers were never used as AAA.  Don't you agree here?

Now loser, if you know who I am, you'd know that at the sign of a vulch, I immediately turn around and fly away from that base.  As a fighter, I avoid vulching.  Ask around, I'm sure many people can say I don't vulch on a regular basis.  Just look at my score, I suck, but thoses numbers aren't scewed by vulching.

The only time I "vulch" is when I'm doing a squad operation base capture.  We need to maintain a "cap" to prevent people from upping and ho'n in the goon.   We don't feel that destroying all the FH's, BH's and VH's to capture a field.  What we do is destroy the town and Kill the VH and AAA defenses at the base.  We then make sure nobody ups to get a chance to kill the goon.

Vulching or capping, which ever way you want to describe it doesn't matter.  The point is that if you let someone up, they will go after the goon or fire on HO's and hope to kill us.  If we die, it takes 15 minutes to get back while the enemy can get back in the fight in 10 seconds.  Please think about the whole picture before responding.  

If bombers can up to act as "undestructable" AAA units, then we have a problem.

Now, does anyone want to read my entire thread and respond to it as a whole?  Probably not.

I'm still waiting for clifra to respond.  Loser, please respond as well.

[loser]

Kermit I read and considered every word of every single one of your posts...

Just for you, I went back and re-read this thread 3 times from start to finish to make sure i didnt miss anything. I hope you appreciate the extra effort I have put in to this.


Now then, SIR.

I'm not sure if you were around in the days way back when the guns on buffs worked from the moment you spawned. You say that it is again that way due to exploiting some glitch in the game?

I dont know, sure..benefit of the doubt.

I happen to be a member of a Bomber squad in the MA but we launch from rear bases when upping so i would never have the need to use the guns on the buffs while on the runway.

Ill assume that what you say is true.

Anyway, the point is, I dont remember it being that much of a problem when buffs had guns enabled OTR. However seeing as how that ability was removed by HTC, at least some people must have kicked and screamed loud enough to have it made so.

Back to your most recent post.

No I dont think i have any idea who you are. Should I?  You say that when there is "a sign" of a vulch(ing opportunity?) that you turn around and fly the other way. Err, wait you "avoid it." And that many people can attest to the fact that you avoid vulching err...." on a regular basis."

So you vulch. Me too. No big deal really.

Now you say that you vulch or cap or whatever only to surpress enemies from preventing the capture of any given base that you are working on as part of your squad. That makes sense. Nothing to argue there as far as I am concerned.

The next part I am confused about. You say:

"We don't feel that destroying all the FH's, BH's and VH's to capture a field."

I assume you just left out some words here.

You dont feel that destroying this stuff....should be neccessary? is fair? makes any sense? is any fun?

I dont understand. But ill give you the benifit of the doubt here again and go with the foremost. That destroying anything more than the ack and the vh and keeping a "cap" over the runway to prevent folks from upping and "HOing you " or "killing your goon" should not be required for taking a base. If im wrong in this assumption please let me know.
 
I think your main problem here might not be "mobile" AAA platforms but that you are used to having to achieve X goals in order to capture a base, and you don't want to have to add anything more to that list to achieve the same result. Remember, you said that you only "cap" in order to capture (paraphrasing here.)

Im not sure if you were a player in the MA when there were no towns at each field. All that was required is that you de-acked the field, then dropped troops on the airfield itself. If the enemy was not aware of your presence, or didnt care, the field was yours.

I personally recall taking a half dozen V bases in far less than an hour with a single P47 (I think it was Jehu) busting ack down as i leap frogged behind in a C47. It was a joke Kermit.

Obviously things have changed because HTC has desired the implementation of more "strategy" into field capture. The quotations here around strategy because im not sure if this really requires more thought or teamwork..or simply more porking. (shrug)

Im not going to speak for HTC by any means here, but perhaps the re-addition of live buff guns OTR is their way of saying that more should be required to make a field "capturable." Or maybe it is a trial of the way things used to be for buffs. Or maybe you are right and it is a glitch/bug. Time will tell i guess.

And please. This is a game, references to the use/non-use of buff guns on the ground historically is a moot point. Folks who tend to use references such as these always seem to pick and choose the facts that they want in order to support their very narrow view of how things "should" be.

But just so i can be a hypocrite, and not to be left out: Wouldnt it be a good idea in "real war" to remove the enemy's ability to wage war prior to conquest? (Hint: this means drop hangers and stuff )

My main point Kermit, I dont see your problem here as such a specific one as enabled buff guns, but as a problem of dealing with more to do in the taking of a base. The guns being a point in case.

Leave em live please.

[Eagle Eye]

I must concer. As a member of Buff unit. Nothing pisses me off more than recieving 3 or 4 ck6s on Runway and just having to say"Oh well".

I feel they should be made active OTR. If I knew the bug I would use it.Then when a vulcher came barrelling in SHABAM 2 or 3 guns per plane join in the ack to force him to manuver. And then if would strongly deter the call "BUFFS ON THE RUNWAY"followed by "YUM YuM".

Now as for vulching. I have never understood war to be "A Fair fight".(Yes I've seen combat).But thats another story for another time. And yes I knoe its a game.

But this is my  view:This "GAME" is about killing the other guy. And if you do that by camping(I say Ambushing?) then good for you.If you do this by vulching then remeber not to compress.

But if HTC  is gonna brag the most realistic WW@ sim online.Then by george make it that way.

[hubsonfire]

If being able to defend yourself on the runway is a glitch, isn't shooting people on the runway since they can't defend themselves an exploit?

[FiLtH]

Best thing to do is kill the ord

[Kermit de frog]

Hmm, I read your post twice just to make sure I understand what you are trying to say.

I still think that "undestructable" mobile AAA are the problem.  The only way to destroy them is to destroy the BH's.  So yes that does add another thing to do on the base capture check list.

Just to clarify, the only way to activate the guns on a bomber while sitting on the runway was to fire your weapons from a certain spot (i.e. in rear gunner position or turrent) and then switch views quickly while holding down a (x) key.  Your lead bomber would not fire, but your drones would.
I still won't write out exactly which keys/postion/order to do the glitch, but it was a glitch.  

I believe disabling guns on a bomber while it is wheels down is to prevent "mobile AAA units with inifinite lives and 1 second respawn times".

Hubks, I don't understand your question.  Try to figure out what my main point is and then dumb down your question that is related specifically to what we are discussing, so that I may understand better.


filth, that's one way to work around the problem.  Thanks for the simple fix and advice.

And lastly, eagle eye, a bomber has no business upping from a capped field.  So, my answer would be to up from another field.  Same answer I'd give to a fighter trying to up.  At least the reason for a fighter to up from a cap'd field is to try to attack the vulchers.  And my view of the game isn't just about getting kills, but the way you kill someone as well as many other things.

[Kermit de frog]

Thank you for repairing that glitch.

I'm sure you knew about it before I posted in the bbs.

Probably from emails that many people may have sent.  I did not email, I only posted here.

If "loser" or anyone in this thread want to continue this conversation, I'd be willing to.

There is a very good reason to disable the guns on a bomber while it's wheels are on the ground.  Please remember that and try to think why that is before posting here.

<-----downloading new patch now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Woot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hubsonfire]

See Rule #4