How do you guys think?

[mietla]

 http://foxnews.com/fn99/national/020801/blackberets.sml

[Karnak]

I think that it should have remained a part of the elite units and not be given to standard units.

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Sisu
-Karnak

[-towd_]

over a dambed hat ? get real, a solders job is to do or die. not to question headwear. is a silly thing. and it is deffinatly not a matter for public oppinion.

[mietla]

 

Originally posted by -towd_:
over a dambed hat ? get real, a solders job is to do or die. not to question headwear. is a silly thing. and it is deffinatly not a matter for public oppinion.

so, let's give medals to everybody. Why some should feel special and priviledged.


BTW, why do we have those stupid ranks?


[This message has been edited by mietla (edited 02-08-2001).]

[Jimdandy]

All I can say is someone in the Pentagon needs to talk to an economist about the law of diminishing returns. For those that don't know what it is I'll give you a classic example. One person in the front row stands up in a stadium to get a better view. The guy in back of him can't see so he stands. Pretty soon everyone is standing and your back to where you were. So lets give everyone a Rangers uniform. That sounds like it will boost the moral and professionalism (as much as a piece of clothing can) for about 10 seconds until everyone notices there uniform is the same as everyone else's. LOL! Wonderful idea.  

[Toad]

The "elite" units always find a way to differentiate themselves.

Think about it. Where did the black beret idea come from anyway? They did it to differentiate themselves from what was "standard".

Now that the black beret is "standard" they'll find a way to do something else.

Remember the "fifty mission crush" hats the USAAF aviators wore? Their commanders just looked the other way and let it pass. Non-aviation commanders were offended by that and made absolutely SURE their commands didn't get away with THAT breach of regulations.

Instant "elite" hat/look.  

A commander of an elite unit normally finds it in his own best interest to make his troops feel elite. They'll do something, you watch.

[Maverick]

 

Originally posted by -towd_:
over a dambed hat ? get real, a solders job is to do or die. not to question headwear. is a silly thing. and it is deffinatly not a matter for public oppinion.

A soldiers job is to do and make the other poor SOB die for his country towd. If you think soldiers are that expendable I am truly glad you are not in any position of authority.

Contrary to what you might think, Soldiers do have first amendment rights. They can, and do, gripe about many things. It has been that way since the Roman Legions and will be so as long as Soldiers come from citizens instead of factories.

The beret IS a dumb idea. The cap served a useful function by keeping the sun out of your eyes in the field. The beret can't possibly compete in functionality.

Every few years some "brass hat" decides to monkey with the uniform. I started out in khaki's, fatigues and "greens" with a tan shirt. I finished with BDU's, Class B's (light green shirt with the "greens" trousers) and class B's with a green shirt. When I left the BDU's had been "redesigned" making all of the old ones not authorized for wear. Major cost in reissuing to the troopies and all officers were privileged to pay over $55.00 per set (shirt, pants) plus pay for, or sew themselves, all the patches REQUIRED to be on the shirt. To really put the bite on it, the uniform providers NEVER have enough in stock to satisfy the demand.

Mav

[StSanta]

Give them all monocles, that's what we do here in ze LW  

Train an arrogant snobby posture and you're set for greatness.

------------------
Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up space"

[Animal]

This may sound stupid but bear with me;

Back in military school, there was a small elite group sponsored by the US Rangers, but for cadets. It was called Raiders, but we called ourselves Rangers. When I joined the academy, I INSTANTLY wanted to join that group. Only the strongest guys were there (and also gals. There were females in the academy and they could chose to be cadets or normal students with civilian clothing, the gals in the Rangers were usually the prettiest AND athletic, also VERY SMART).

It was VERY VERY hard to join that group. But if you could, you got to go to different international competitions, you would get all sorts of perks, support from the other members, etc. They were like brothers. So I decided to try to join, I did my best, and I got in. In the years I rose in rank till I became the Platoon Sergeant. This was a really big deal to me. I really wore my uniform with pride, INCLUDING my BLACK beret, wich I cleaned EVERY day. Girls LOVED my uniform. And I loved it too. Shortly before my graduation, the school decided to issue the black beret to ANYONE who wanted to wear one; before that, it was an honor only the RANGERS could have, anyone caught wearing one was swiftly punished by the school (and if caught by us, they were into a world of pain).

After anyone who wanted wore the beret, the RANGERS lost all prestige, all cadets became sloppy, didnt care about their uniform, didnt train anymore, they became fat and unmotivated. Right now if you go to the academy, the Rangers are still there, but they are not the same as before. Now they are a bunch of geeks and losers who cant run a mile, because all the good cadets dont care about joining.

And all for a simple beret.

But its not really just a "hat". Its not the beret. Its that feeling that after all your effort, your hard work to earn to be in the elite group, you feel cheated because now everyone can have all you worked for, easily. The beret is representative of all that hard work. Now anyone can wear it.

Maybe you have to experience it to understand me. I'm not as athletic as before, I'm very sloppy and FAR from a military man, but I still keep that beret in a case in my closet. Sometimes I open the case and look at it, and I really feel very proud, for some HAT that I earned in a military academy as a CADET, I was never going to war or anything, but still for some reason, now that I think it was all silly, I still feel proud that I earned that beret. Because back then it was a big deal to me, I thought it was impossible, and I beat the odds.

Now imagine what the REAL Rangers feel.

You may think of it as silly. But there are some of us who dont.

My opinion on all of this is that they may take the beret and give it to anyone, but not anyone can feel the pride that they worked hard to become a Ranger. That guy above whose name I forgot is right, they will find another way to distinguish themselves.

Because after all, they may give the berets to everyone, but they cant give everyone the honor of being better than most everyone else because you earned to be so and worked for it.

[This message has been edited by Animal (edited 02-08-2001).]

[TheWobble]

"Give them all monocles, that's what we do here in ze LW" ROFL!!!!!!

 

[miko2d]

 Maybe they should compromise - give the rest of the army pink berets.

 miko

[Eagler]

What's the United Nations beret color?

If I were a Ranger, I'd be insulted. Just as if they were handing out green ones and I was a Green Beret.

Eagler

[Jimdandy]

 

Originally posted by Animal:
...Shortly before my graduation, the school decided to issue the black beret to ANYONE who wanted to wear one; before that, it was an honor only the RANGERS could have, anyone caught wearing one was swiftly punished by the school (and if caught by us, they were into a world of pain).

After anyone who wanted wore the beret, the RANGERS lost all prestige, all cadets became sloppy, didnt care about their uniform, didnt train anymore, they became fat and unmotivated...

[This message has been edited by Animal (edited 02-08-2001).]

Yep the law of diminishing returns rears it's ugly head.

[mrfish]

 

Originally posted by miko2d:
Maybe they should compromise - give the rest of the army pink berets.
 miko

lol - fighting soooooldiers from the sky......with their pink hats they jump n' die...
 

[LJK Raubvogel]

 

Originally posted by -towd_:
over a dambed hat ? get real, a solders job is to do or die. not to question headwear. is a silly thing. and it is deffinatly not a matter for public oppinion.

First of all, I'm against the idea, but I'll wear the damn thing when it comes out because I have to. Towd-soldiers have a freedom of speech like any other American citizen. We are the ones who protect that freedom for others. The military wants soldiers that think, not automatons. We have to obey orders, but there is no regulation that says we have to like it.

Anyone who survived the ordeal of Ranger school deserves to wear that beret. It is their reward for being a "cut above." Our elite infantry should be distinguishable from the snot-nosed punk fresh off the street. The Army could have chosen from a multitude of other colors. If they must stay with black, I sure hope they will allow the Rangers to at least select another color for their distinctive headgear.


[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 02-09-2001).]