Author Topic: Last night on the history channel  (Read 1829 times)

Offline Brenjen

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Last night on the history channel
« on: June 04, 2006, 03:34:11 PM »
I saw a special on Japans atomic projects during WWII, they reported that documents surfaced in 2001 from a Japanese professor who had moved to the U.S. on a special visa (like Von Braun) & had been teaching at the University of Arkansas. The documents he smuggled out of Japan were found in his estate upon his death & were authenticated when they interviewed Japanese scientists who were named in the papers & were still alive.

 The claim is that Japan had exploded it's own atomic device in occupied Korea (Northe Korea) just after the U.S. bombing of Hiroshima!:O


 I have always been against the detonation of the bombs on Japan, not because of any touchy-feely thoughts on my part, I just thought we could have won with the fire bombings we were carrying out nightly & a naval blockade while keeping the atomic secret...a secret. You know, save it as our ace in the hole against a future enemy.

 Now I have changed my position, apparently we were only months or weeks away from having an atomic weapon detonated on our west coast. They claimed the Japanese navy had planned to load a device on a submarine & detonate it in California.

 Kamikaze nukes...lovely.

Offline Elfie

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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2006, 03:54:48 PM »
Interesting. I wonder if the site where the Japanese supposedly detonated their own atomic device still has measurable residual radiation so this story can be authenticated?
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Offline john9001

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« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2006, 04:29:13 PM »
japan and germany were both years away from having the "bomb"

Offline Brenjen

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« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2006, 04:41:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
Interesting. I wonder if the site where the Japanese supposedly detonated their own atomic device still has measurable residual radiation so this story can be authenticated?



 I'm sure it does...do you have access to North Korea to test for it?

Offline Brenjen

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« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2006, 04:42:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
japan and germany were both years away from having the "bomb"


 Interesting observation. So you are an expert on WWII era Japanese atomic research? Because the scientists they interviewed are & actually worked on the project.

Offline Elfie

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« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2006, 04:44:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Brenjen
I'm sure it does...do you have access to North Korea to test for it?


Of course not......none of us do. Neither do I have the knowledge to complete the tests personally. However, something might be able to be worked out with the North Koreans to allow a team of scientists to verify the test site as having a   atomic device detonated there at the end of World War 2. :)
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Offline Brenjen

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« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2006, 05:13:51 PM »
It appears they detonated it offshore. But seriously, you think the North Koreans would "work something out" with the Untied States or anyone affiliated with the us? China maybe, but us.

 The Russians captured the area & collected everything there, transporting it all to Russia. Four Russian Yak fighters from nearby Hammung Airfield even apparently shot down an American B-29 on Aug. 29, 1945 en route to the area.

 All of this was reported in 1946 & it was only in 2001 that the smuggled documents came to light with the death of the Japanese professor.


 All the Japanese officials involved agree, the Japanese exploded an atomic weapon that was about 1/3 the size of our trinity device three days before the end of the war.


 If this interests you, be on the lookout for it on one of the History channels. I saw it on last night at 1 A.M. my time.

Offline Bruno

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« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2006, 06:07:11 PM »
It's complete bunk, there was also claims that the German's detonated there own version of an 'atomic bomb' at Ohrdruf on 4th and 12th March 1945.

There are even 'documents', 'eye witnesses' and 'officials' supporting the claims. They are bunk just like the claim that the Japanese had built their own bomb.

The 'history channel' puts out an inordinate amount of nonsense and should change its name to the 'lets sensationalize and make stuff up channel'.

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2006, 06:16:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bruno
It's complete bunk, there was also claims that the German's detonated there own version of an 'atomic bomb' at Ohrdruf on 4th and 12th March 1945.

There are even 'documents', 'eye witnesses' and 'officials' supporting the claims. They are bunk just like the claim that the Japanese had built their own bomb.

The 'history channel' puts out an inordinate amount of nonsense and should change its name to the 'lets sensationalize and make stuff up channel'.


What you just said is bunk and like you I offer no proof or back up my asertations of 'bunkness'

Offline DiabloTX

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« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2006, 06:28:55 PM »
From the Wiki:

Disputed reports about the nuclear program in Konan in 1945
Very little is known about the size of the atomic program in Konan though it is conventionally thought to have been small in comparison with the successful U.S. effort. In 1946, a journalist named David Snell working for the Atlanta Constitution wrote a sensationalist story which indicated that Japan had in fact successfully developed and tested a nuclear weapon in Konan. Snell was a former reporter, soon to become Life Magazine correspondent assigned to the 24th Criminal Investigation Detachment in Korea. He interviewed a Japanese officer who said he had been in charge of counter intelligence at the Konan project before the fall of Japan.

According to the officer, who used a pseudonym in the article because he was afraid of retaliation by occupation forces, the program was able to assemble a complete nuclear weapon in a cave in Konan and detonate it on August 12, 1945 on an unmanned ship nearby. Reportedly, the weapon produced a mushroom shaped cloud with a diameter of about 100 m (the first American bomb, "Trinity", had a mushroom cloud some three times the size of that), and also destroyed several ships in the test area. To the observers 20 mi (32 km) away, the bomb was brighter than the rising sun. The officer then claimed that the Russian Army, which captured Konan in November 1945 after some of the last fighting in the war, dismantled the Japanese project and shipped it and some of its scientists taken prisoner back to the Soviet Union.

Most mainstream historians dispute that the Japanese program got close to developing an atomic bomb but US intelligence took the possibility very seriously and continued to question repatriated Japanese from the Konan area about the project.

A 1985 book by Robert Wilcox reprinted the Snell interview as a basis for investigating the Japanese WWII nuclear efforts. In addition to detailing the known Japanese army and navy efforts, the book cites numerous intelligence reports and interviews which indicated the Japanese might have had an atomic program at Konan. It also gave evidence that the Japanese navy, taking up the atomic project after Nishina’s Riken had been destroyed, increased the Japanese efforts to make a weapon. The book, prefaced by Derek deSolla Price, Avalon professor of the history of science at Yale University, who endorsed it, was both panned and praised. Price wrote, “No longer can we maintain that a Japanese bomb just couldn’t have happened. Obviously it ‘nearly’ did. The only questions are how near and what does it do to our judgment on the one case we have of atomic warfare.” James L. Stokesbury, author of A Short History of World War II, wrote: “I had no idea the Japanese were working as seriously on an atomic bomb...this has to modify our perception of one of the crucial issues of the war.”

A review by a Department of Energy employee in the journal Military Affairs degraded it:

Journalist Wilcox' book describes the Japanese wartime atomic energy projects. This is a laudable, in that it illuminates a little-known episode; nevertheless, the work is marred by Wilcox' seeming eagerness to show that Japan created an atomic bomb. Tales of Japanese atomic explosions, one a fictional attack on Los Angeles, the other an unsubstantiated account of a post-Hiroshima test, begin the book. (Wilcox accepts the test story because the author [Snell], "was a distinguished journalist"). The tales, combined with Wilcox' failure to discuss the difficulty of translating scientific theory into a workable bomb, obscure the actual story of the Japanese effort: uncoordinated laboratory-scale projects which took paths least likely to produce a bomb. In the historical journal Isis, two historians of science said only of Wilcox's work that his thesis stood "on the flimsiest and most unconvincing of grounds," and surmised that the hidden agenda of such conspiracy theories was "to furnish a new exculpation for America's dropping of atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki."
"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Denmark I eat a danish for peace." - Diablo

Offline Brenjen

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« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2006, 06:30:39 PM »
LOL, I was thinking the same thing...at least the historians have proof of their claims & investigate to discover the truth if it is out there to find.

 All I can say is, I saw it, it was interesting & if you see it on, give it a watch.

 Oh, BTW anyone can write anything in wikpedia, it is far from a reliable source of information.

Offline Debonair

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« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2006, 06:32:29 PM »
someone set them up the bomb:noid :noid :noid :noid

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2006, 06:33:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Debonair
someone set them up the bomb:noid :noid :noid :noid


You have no chance to survive, make your time.

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2006, 06:37:50 PM »
Eh .... *ShruG* ... when the hitler ... errr ... I mean ... history channel first came out I was kinda excited about it. As time went on I saw more and more slipshod sensationalist rumor magazine style shows being aired and came to the conclusion that they're specifically shooting for the conspiracy theory/paranoid/alternate history/"graphic novel" crowd's buck. I suppose from an entertainment - suspend belief viewpoint it may have some use, though Hollywood's better at it. I guess you get what you pay for. ;) :aok

Offline DiabloTX

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« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2006, 06:38:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Brenjen
Oh, BTW anyone can write anything in wikpedia, it is far from a reliable source of information.


Yup.  Just like any numbnut can watch the History Channel and espouse it's validity.
"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Denmark I eat a danish for peace." - Diablo