Author Topic: French Armour (Read 1418 times)

Bodhi · « **Reply #15 on:** June 09, 2006, 04:17:17 PM »

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Originally posted by Bruno
There were less then 230 Ausf D produced by '41 when production of this model stopped. There were even fewer available for the invasion of France.

Please provide a link to that statistic.

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #16 on:** June 09, 2006, 04:32:40 PM »

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Originally posted by Bodhi
Please provide a link to that statistic.

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz3.htm

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Overall early models (Ausf A/B/C) were development models and were mostly used for testing / training purposes while some were used in combat. In October of 1939, next variant Ausf D was produced by Krupp-Gruson and it was produced until May of 1941 with total of 229 produced. Panzer IV Ausf D was truly the first production model and remained in service until 1944. It featured new front hull plate design (as Ausf A) and new external gun mantlet.

Bruno · « **Reply #17 on:** June 09, 2006, 04:44:13 PM »

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Originally posted by Bodhi
Please provide a link to that statistic.

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...maybe you should actually pick up and read a history book someday instead of making incorrect statements and unsubstantiated opinions all the time.

If DoKGonZo's source isn't good enough for you I can post monthly production totals for the Ausf D if you like...

Bodhi · « **Reply #18 on:** June 09, 2006, 10:46:47 PM »

No Bruno, that is good enough, just was curious on the source. Either way, they were there and served in number.

SMIDSY · « **Reply #19 on:** June 09, 2006, 10:58:56 PM »

the Char B-1 was the tiger of the early war, however, it had very poor mobility and by the middle of the war it would have been completely outclassed. i see no place in this game for french armor.

Debonair · « **Reply #20 on:** June 10, 2006, 01:28:00 AM »

i'd like to see the venezuelan tortuga armoured car

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #21 on:** June 10, 2006, 03:23:01 AM »

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Originally posted by Debonair
i'd like to see the venezuelan tortuga armoured car

exterminate ... exterminate ... exterminate ... (Dr. Who fans will get it)

Squire · « **Reply #22 on:** June 10, 2006, 08:03:04 PM »

Its a common myth that the Germans had "better tanks" in 1940, they didn't.

They had "adequate" tanks that were used well tactically, and organised better than the French army tank units were.

The Pnz IVD was not seen in large #s, the Pnz III and Pnz 38(t) (a Czechoslovakian tank) were their "MBTs" and served well, being mechanicaly reliable, fast cross country, with "good enough" gun and armor combos to do the job they needed. The Pnz II was also used in large #s, mainly as a light tank.

Although "on paper" the Char B and S35 look formidable, they both lack a 2 man turret, so they are decent AFVs, but not as good in battle as you might think by just looking at their raw stats.

Angus · « **Reply #23 on:** June 11, 2006, 09:53:37 AM »

Weren't the German tanks quite a bit faster as well?

MiloMorai · « **Reply #24 on:** June 11, 2006, 11:03:13 AM »

Link to French tanks, http://www.chars-francais.net/archives/char-de-bataille_1924.htm

Bruno · « **Reply #25 on:** June 11, 2006, 12:11:28 PM »

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Either way, they were there and served in number.

Define 'in number'. There were some deployed for the invasion of France but in such a low number as to make them insignificant.

As Squire stated the Wehrmacht MBT was the PIII Ausf E with KwK 35/36 L/46.5 gun. It was clearly inferior in terms of fire power and armor to the best of the French tanks but Wehrmacht tactics and deployment proved superior to those of the French. Up-gunned PIII Ausf E/Fs with 50mm KwK 38 L/42 gun were equally rare in France.

It should be pointed out the PIV was originally intended to be utilized an infantry support AFV. Fitted with a low-velocity 75 mm L/24 gun its intended roll was to be used as a 'break through' tank not in the anti-armor roll. This changed with later models of course but I wonder just how effective the Ausf D would have been against a CHAR.

We all know (or should know) that things are never as simple as 'who ever has the best is the best'.

Charge · « **Reply #26 on:** June 11, 2006, 12:36:56 PM »

Pz IV Ausf D

I have used that some in WW2OL and I have to say that despite better armour and 75mm gun it is mainly a infantry support tank and rather bad against other tanks, especially Somua. From longer ranges it is very hard to hit a moving target because of slow velocity of the 75mm round and its high trajectory. With this I mean that with a flat trajectory round you only need to know the correct lead and fire at the silhouette, where as with a slow, high trajectory round it is very had to hit anything moving because the lead and aiming height must be just correct to get a hit because the round has to be "dropped" on the enemy tank.

-C+