Author Topic: global warning update.  (Read 6886 times)

Offline Holden McGroin

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global warning update.
« Reply #225 on: June 13, 2006, 01:53:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
Freak year!


Freak 50 years!

just as plausible.  We are talking of timescales of millienia.
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Offline GtoRA2

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global warning update.
« Reply #226 on: June 13, 2006, 02:18:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Angus
.
And  GtoRA2 : There is a B17 coming from the nearest glacier where I live. The engine block is outside the nearest farm to it. But after going down and under the ice it's pretty well chewed up :(



As was the B17 that landed with the lost P-38 flight.

The P-38 they pulled out was mostly intack though pretty badly crushed in places and the tail was ripped off.



The other P-38s may be in better shape, though they were 250 plus feet down I think, so thats we prolly need more dudes like Laz with Big blocks chevies and will to use them!

Offline Angus

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« Reply #227 on: June 14, 2006, 03:40:57 AM »
Some 70 metres down I think.
I'll try to find more on this.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Angus

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« Reply #228 on: June 14, 2006, 04:22:33 AM »
268 feet wow!
http://www.thelostsquadron.com/p-38-pages/p-38-lightning-recovery.htm
Anyway, lot's to look into here ;)

"So, it was hotter in 1925? How do you explain that?"
There were always spikes. It was hotter in the N-Temperate zone centuries ago, cooling in the middle ages. But finding 10 consecutive years that beat our last 10 might still prove a bit hard....


And here is a goodie:
"There are many dire predicitions based on the theory of continuing global warming. The ice in Greenland melts and gives rise to sea levels swamping costal cities. Have those in the doom and gloom camp considered that warmer air holds more moisture? Perhaps the ice melted in Greenland will be offset by the increased moisture held in the warmer air? Lotta variables to consider."
Surely variables to consider. How much 100% moisture do you think this chunk will make? And what is the effect of a vast glacier vs increased moisture? The glacier reflect sunrays, thereby heat, while water moisture ranks as greenhouse gas. Reverse effects so to say.


Then Jackal.....
"At least you are considering it. That means that you also have to be considering that the global warming theory could possibly just be a load of horse manure"
If you refer to the theory of the global warming being mostly man-made, I just consider that too.
If you refer to the globe not being warming I consider the warming as a fact.
Then this one:
"You have stated that what needs to be done counter global warming is plant more vegetation. Ok, look at the areas that are being opened up that have not had vegetation on them for a long , long time. Vegetation, forests, etc. will appear and grow here. No Ancient Eygyptians needed.
Mother nature doing a balancing act? "
I have stated that increased vegetation affects the CO2 balance. Logically, IF the warming is due to greenhouse gas emission, this is countering.
We now have vast areas on the planet that are mostly deprived of vegetation, while burning old trapped Charbon. Natures way of balancing would be the destruction of us, then autopilot :D
And the Egyptians once again. I was referring to their CURRENT projects where they are advancing with their green areas into the desert in a very impressive way. There are more Egyptians than the ancient, and many nations could perhaps try to follow their example.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Mini D

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global warning update.
« Reply #229 on: June 14, 2006, 06:19:29 AM »
LOL! Science be dammed.

If a glacier melts it will flood the world? Wow.

If a glacier melts due to global warming, then the ice cap will also recede. If that's done, the sea level will actually go down. Ice takes up more volume in water than water.

It's amazing how twisted and anti-science this "debate" gets and how quickly it gets there. Damn... now I'm just being redundant.

Offline Jackal1

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global warning update.
« Reply #230 on: June 14, 2006, 07:36:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Angus

Then Jackal.....

If you refer to the theory of the global warming being mostly man-made, I just consider that too.
 


Well, that`s a given. We know the theory is man-made. It`s whether the theory  will hold water, so to speak, that is the question.

Quote
If you refer to the globe not being warming I consider the warming as a fact.


Another thing that you seem seem to be more sure of than the scientific community. They certainly don`t agree on it.

Quote
I have stated that increased vegetation affects the CO2 balance. Logically, IF the warming is due to greenhouse gas emission, this is countering.


:) You`re picking up on the scientist speak pretty good................IF....may be/maybe not...could be/could not be.............possibly/possibly not.

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Natures way of balancing would be the destruction of us, then autopilot :D


Not sure how you figure that. I beleive, once again, that you are putting man as the ultimate factor.

Quote
And the Egyptians once again. I was referring to their CURRENT projects where they are advancing with their green areas into the desert in a very impressive way.


I`d be willing to bet they are using machinery to do so. Sort of doubt they are doing all the work manualy. If so , then here we go with opposite effect again.
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Offline Angus

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global warning update.
« Reply #231 on: June 14, 2006, 08:46:07 AM »
Jackal, you're in one haggling mood.
Here's something for your info.
The Egyptians are mostly playing with the Nile, and definately using machinery as well.
To make agriculture in warm areas like there, you would need some 10% of the land to create all the machine energy you'll need.
10 is a rough number, but has still a good foot.
For planting and cropping oil seed in a country like ...Denmark, you'll need roughly 5 hours with 150 hp x 15 litres of diesel => some 75, - hell, let's say 100 litres.
A very good crop seed is 3 tonnes. That leaves the biomass of the stick & leaves. Very much of the 3 tonnes is oil, the rest is protein food.
Levels out quite nicely.
A barren sand ties up no CO2 at all.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline lazs2

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global warning update.
« Reply #232 on: June 14, 2006, 08:54:31 AM »
so beet...  do you admit that doubling the co2 level will increase temp by about 1 degree and that doubling it will take 100 years if nothing else changes and we continue to produce co2 at the rate we are and....  no natural cooling trend happens?

I don't think we caused to go away, the 1990 "ice age" that was predicted.

I don't think we are significantly affecting weather now..  be it global warming or cooling.

I think anyone who calims we are does so based on a belief bordering on religious fantisism.

lazs

Offline lukster

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global warning update.
« Reply #233 on: June 14, 2006, 09:05:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
LOL! Science be dammed.

If a glacier melts it will flood the world? Wow.

If a glacier melts due to global warming, then the ice cap will also recede. If that's done, the sea level will actually go down. Ice takes up more volume in water than water.

It's amazing how twisted and anti-science this "debate" gets and how quickly it gets there. Damn... now I'm just being redundant.


Depends. Glaciers like those sitting on Greenland are not floating on water but rather sitting on land. Any melting there would add to the volume of the sea. However, there are a lot of unknowns, not the least of which is how much water will be absorbed by the warmer air. I've read that none of the ice in Antartica will melt due to the current warming trends but rather it will likely grow due to the increased snow fall resulting from the warmer air holding more moisture.

Offline lazs2

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global warning update.
« Reply #234 on: June 14, 2006, 09:12:46 AM »
All them new and faster growing plants due to increased Co2 are gonna need water too.

lazs

Offline Angus

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global warning update.
« Reply #235 on: June 14, 2006, 09:17:08 AM »
Antarctica is breaking of very big chunks now, - bigger than known before.
What their effect will be is hard to say, - depends where they go.
Big chunks stay very long, - and smaller, but somewhat proper chunks like the one who got hit by the Titanic can take centuries to melt. (It is claimed that one has been identified)
But the thinner ice on the arctic melts faster, breaks faster etc. That one, already being in the water does NOT raise the ocean level.
Personally, I am not worrying so much about the ice melting. It will take a long time to raise the SL properly. It's the TUNDRA melting that gives me the jitters. Ask me why ....
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline lukster

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global warning update.
« Reply #236 on: June 14, 2006, 09:19:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
All them new and faster growing plants due to increased Co2 are gonna need water too.

lazs


Sounds like the system might be self regulating doesn't it? Of course there's a little wiggle room. Afterall, without a little change from time to time things would get pretty boring.

Offline lazs2

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global warning update.
« Reply #237 on: June 14, 2006, 09:20:08 AM »
if the tundra is melting then mother nature is just doing her thing...  There is nothing man can do about it.

lazs

Offline Jackal1

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global warning update.
« Reply #238 on: June 14, 2006, 09:58:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Angus
Jackal, you're in one haggling mood.
Here's something for your info.
The Egyptians are mostly playing with the Nile, and definately using machinery as well.
To make agriculture in warm areas like there, you would need some 10% of the land to create all the machine energy you'll need.
10 is a rough number, but has still a good foot.
For planting and cropping oil seed in a country like ...Denmark, you'll need roughly 5 hours with 150 hp x 15 litres of diesel => some 75, - hell, let's say 100 litres.
A very good crop seed is 3 tonnes. That leaves the biomass of the stick & leaves. Very much of the 3 tonnes is oil, the rest is protein food.
Levels out quite nicely.
A barren sand ties up no CO2 at all.


Hehe! Here we go again. That`s just fine if you want to have a starting point beginning in the middle or near the end of the process.
I believe you left out a few things in your equation Angus.
Machinery takes iron/metal to make and produce. Iron ore has to be mined/refined.  ( More C02 output) This is not even considering the machinery used and C02 output produced in the exploration end of it.(Machinery) Factories have to be built and in production. (More machinery, more C02 output) Once built, the machinery has to be shipped. Whether by land or sea, it equals more machinery , more C02 output.
Your theory would pan out if the machinery magical appeared on location.......possibly. :) Don`t work like that.

Your theory  and figures are also based upon perfect scenarios just like the sceanarios used by global warming theorists. A sterile/absolute environment, if you will. Hardly if ever works out that way in reality due to the unknown factors that can`t be predicted.

A sidenote I had to add:
Some years ago , the Farmer`s Co-Op in our area hired four supposedly top notch cattle feed formulation experts. Wallpaper running out their yazoo. Degrees, degrees and more degrees. Damn near career students of higher edumuncation. :)
They got their heads together and came up with what they proposed as a low cost/high protein range cube formula.
With laptops, and sheets of written formulas in hand, they presented this formula to my Dad.
To use my Dad`s words. ..he told them "It won`t work cats."
They went into a dither of showing and reshowing the formula and kept stressing the protein content. Dad told them that yea it had protein, but didn`t mean you could make a cube out of it in reality. He also told them that he could get protein from a bois d` arc tree, but that didn`t mean he could make a cube out of it.
He agreed to a test run. When the range cubes came out of the cube die they were slick and pretty and nearing perfection. The experts were picking them up and showing them to Dad with chests puffed out with their superior knowledge. :)
Dad told them "Good enough. Now let`s go one floor down to the cooling bin."
They went down and when the cubes exited the conveyor out of the cooling bin they had exloded and puffed up to the point of unrecognizable.
Reality sometimes gets in the way of things in formulas and predicted results from sterile scenarios. :)
In the majority of cases, good ole common sense will prevail. :)
« Last Edit: June 14, 2006, 10:53:54 AM by Jackal1 »
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Offline beet1e

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global warning update.
« Reply #239 on: June 14, 2006, 10:02:34 AM »
LOL Lazs - I didn't know David Attenborough was a religious fanatic!

If you have a DVD player that can play Region-2 DVD-RAM, I'd send you DA's programme, and all your questions would be answered. You wouldn't have to keep "busting my chops" about it. Isn't that what they say in NY?

And Angus - they're right, you know - it really makes no sense to believe the results of scientific studies that have taken place over decades, costing millions of $, when the answers to everything can be found by asking some guy in the Fountain of Knowledge (also known as the AH O'Club) who has never even seen Greenland!
:rofl