American Elections

[Maverick]

Igloo,

I suppose it never occurred to you that not all Republicans are the same. You have more than once used emotionally charged words and rhetoric based on opinion instead of facts in your arguments. When someone disagree's with you they find themselves being called names. I do not appreciate your generalizations.

Mav

[This message has been edited by Maverick (edited 10-25-2000).]

[Thrax]

Funny how you didn't complain at all the generalisations about the Democrats.

I like your double standards......

[Gunthr]

 Igloo, I think you are a latent Conservative, struggling within yourself, and ineffectually batting at the pinata of Conservativism. You desperately want all those goodies within, but you are afraid.

Don't be a closet conservative. Come out, come out, we are waiting for you.......  

[Eagler]

Wednesday October 25 6:16 AM ET
Anti-Israel Group Supports Clinton


NEW YORK (AP) - A U.S. Muslim group whose leader supports the Palestinians' right to use armed force against Israel raised $50,000 for Hillary Rodham Clinton (news - web sites)'s Senate campaign, the New York Daily News reported Wednesday.

The American Muslim Alliance said it collected the money June 13 at a $500-a-ticket Boston fund-raiser at which Clinton was presented with a plaque honoring her human rights efforts.

Clinton's campaign confirms she attended the event but claims the alliance was not the sponsor, the newspaper reported.

Yeah, sure I believe them. Is there any group they will not take money from?

Eagler

[Igloo]

I said: "because some[/i] see it as a way to express patriotism".  Not all, some.

It's pretty hard not to generalise about a group of people, be it republicans or democrats, when that group of people come together under a commmon mindset.  It is then obvious that if this group comes together under a common mindset, there is general, common link between them.  Otherwise, they would not called Republicans, or Democrats.  They would be classified by name.

I'm unaware of calling anyone names...

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Squadron Leader, Igloo.
C/O RCAF 411 Squadron - County of York

"Problems cannot be solved with the same awareness that created them" - Albert Einstein[/i]

[Igloo]

 

whose leader supports the Palestinians' right to use armed force against Israel

When your people are being shot and killed by the hundereds by a foriegn army in your own land, you would feel the same.  

Put yourself in Palestinian shoes for just one moment.  

Both sides are as equally wrong, but one side has lost over 130 people, mostly childern.

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Squadron Leader, Igloo.
C/O RCAF 411 Squadron - County of York

"Problems cannot be solved with the same awareness that created them" - Albert Einstein[/i]

[Eagler]

 

Originally posted by Igloo:

Both sides are as equally wrong, but one side has lost over 130 people, mostly children.

Yes, I agree, both sides have done wrong, not sure if they are equally wrong though. As for the children dying, it's not that the Israelis are kicking down door and machine gunning kids or going into school yards. These kids are throwing stones and gas bombs at people with automatic weapons! I wonder what kind of parent would tell their child to do something like that. It makes me wonder about the intelligence of the nation as a whole and it's leader who doesn't see the uselessness of such action and speak out against it. I think they want to die, to possibly give their life meaning. To stir up an emotional response. I guess you forget these are the same ones who strap bombs on and see now many women and children they can take out at a market or on a bus.
As I've stated before, I think if they spent the time they waste fighting an unwinnable war and used it to show the world they were civil, they get more respect and support from other countries. First step would be to elect a leader who was not a terrorist. There isn't the bleeding heart liberal faction in Israel like there is in the states. They could possibly martyr themselves into victory if they were up against the U.S. but not Israel. They don't have the tolerance for it.

Eagler

[Minotaur]

Ouch!  

What a nice testament to United States of America.

People thousands of miles away criticize our political systems and our politicians.  While we at home here in the United States of American do the same.

Only....

We don't care nearly so much about their political systems or their politicians. as they do about ours.  

Why is that?

Mino

[Igloo]

Eagler, have you ever visted an Islamic nation?  I've worked in one.  Things are not as simple as you believe them to be.  The people there are not as dumb as you believe them to be.  They are passionate, caring people who stand for what they believe in.  A little like those you now call your "Founding Fathers".  Their lives have meaning, to say they are doing this to give their lives meaning implies you don't believe they already do.  Once again, this is indicative of living in a society that does not allow you to comprehend the world other human beings are living in.

How many childern, ages 14-17 fought against Britian in the gaining of your independence?  They believe they are fighting for their very survival as a nation, and as a people.  That is a serious motive.  "They", as you say, are not the ones strapping bombs to their chests.  Those are only a few misguided minorities.  The Israeli's are occuping their land, and they believe they have the right to fight against that.  I'm sure you would too.

This is much more than simply an uneducated Arab nation not controling itself and fighting for the sake of fighting as you believe.  You're allowing the sterotypes to control your view of a people very different than you believe them to be.

The Israeli's have to pull out.  The Palestians have to let them.  Who does what first?  It's up to the both of them.

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Squadron Leader, Igloo.
C/O RCAF 411 Squadron - County of York

"Problems cannot be solved with the same awareness that created them" - Albert Einstein[/i]

[StSanta]

Igloo, I hear ya.

But if you play with fire and you get burned, don't squealing whine.

Take the consequences of your actions.

If you're 25 and you attack me and I have a gun and shoot you dead, it's your own stupid fault.

If you're 12 and the same happens, it ain't my fault either.

The risk of dying in the clashes is relatively low, so they all take their chances. What pisses me off is the Palestinians using the kids in emotional appeals claiming the Israeli soldiers shoot innocent kids.

There ain't no innocent kids in a mob.

These guys know how the Israels will react -  with rubber coated bullets that will kill if they hit the wrong place of yer body.

So, stop the "child killing Israeli" moaning roadkill (not aimed at you Igloo  ), and call it what it is - for the Palestinians point of view, casualties of war, and from the Israeli's point of view, regrettable deaths in a violent mob.

If the Israelis wanted to kill off the Palestinians, they wouldn't use rubber coated bullets for one. And they'd use cluster bombs, snipers, tanks and whatnot. They're responding like they always had, but now the clashes are much bigger, so, more casualties.

I am not condoning the way the Israelis are handling this - it's definitely not right. All I am saying is both sides know what they're getting themselves into, so should bloody well also accept the consequences.

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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

[Toad]

Santa, feeeeeeeeeel the DARK SIDE!

Personal Responsibility!

Personal Accountability!

The DARK SIDE is strong in you, young Jedi!

Soon you will cross over to the Conservatives!

 

[Thrax]

There ain't no innocent kids in a mob.

Do you think they have a realistic concept of right and wrong? Do you think they really understand the history of Israel, Palastine, the 1946 war etc...

No, they've been encouraged by their local media and had the 'blessing' of their parents to go throw stones at the 'Bad Guys'.

Would America had reacted with the same indifference if the British Army had shot 200 Irish Catholics in 3 weeks during the troubles here? And trust me, kids threw stones there too. And as I have served in N Ireland in a capacity during those dark days, I can vouch that most of those kids didn't really have a clue.

Sorry, but some of the attitudes I've seen on this BBS make me sick.


Just saw this

with rubber coated bullets that will kill if they hit the wrong place of yer body.

Do you actually have a clue what is going on there? If they were just using rubber bullets that wouldnt be so bad. Tanks, Gunships and snipers. Read the damn news before spouting off crap.


[This message has been edited by Thrax (edited 10-27-2000).]

[Udie]

 What do you expect them to do when a palestinian mob starts shooting ak47's into a neighborhood?  They tried to do anything they could to appease arifat last summer and he still wouldn;t sign a peace deal.

 I have alot of Arab and Iranian friends in Houston, 4 of which are from Lebanon(Palestinians) While they are good friends I can honestly say that I have never seen as much hatetred of another religeon/race than they have towards the Jews.  The Palestinians HATE the Jews period.  Their leaders won't rest until Isreal is gone, that's in their freakin charter and they won't remove it!

 Isreal has been acting rather restrained if you ask me.   What do you think the Russians would do if a mov of Chechnyan's attacked a neighborhood in Moscow? Hell look what America did to the branch davidians and they never even left ther compound.  Those palestinian "kids" would do a whole lot better for themselves if they'd go to school or try and find work rather than throw rocks and shoot at Isreal.

Udie

[StSanta]

Toad:

Aaagh, you are not my father!   LOL

Thrax, I probably watch more news than you do.

I get up at 6am in the morning, flip between CNN and BBC. Then in the breaks at the college, I browse their web sites.

When I get home, I check news, check AH bb, check cnn.com. Have either Discovery Channel or BBC on TV.

I know what's going on.

And, believe me, they use *rubber coated steel bullets* when they fire at a mob. They don't need snipers for that; would be far more effective to just machine gun the whole bunch.

Have they used tanks and helicopters on the mob?

If you've checked the news, you'd know this isn't so. if you know anything about employment of tanks and helis, you know why they are there.

As far as the kids go; if they're old enough to throw rocks at Israelis, they are old enoough to understand that rocks can hurt people. If they're smart enough to get that, they should be able to conclude that *bullets* will hurt more.

And even a 7 year old can figure out the casual relationship between molotov cocktail and rubber bullet response.

I'm sorry if this sounds very insensitive, but the world can be a toejamty place. If one blames everything else for misfortunes, one will get nowhere.

Where does parental responsibility come in? Don't you think you got a responsibility to keep your kids out of a mob that say throws stones at the police?

If you as an adult wanna fight for what you believe; fine. If you raise your kids and send them out while still kids and they get hurt, their blood is on YOUR hands as much as on the enemies. You never gave them an alternative.

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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

[Igloo]

The war is in 1948, btw.  Not '46.