Rockets & Ballistics

[Elfie]

Thats an excellent article Donzo.

[hubsonfire]

Since he's talking about the game, and that's the only thing that matters in the game, maybe it would be more productive to start there?

Depends mainly on convergence, Phtom. You could probably more easily demonstrate, on a webpage, the ballistics of the guns buy using the .target command, and taking pics of a given convergence at different ranges, repeating that process with a few different convergences and planes.

Apparently none of us know, so I'd start with that.

[Murdr]

Originally posted by Phtom


 Does anyone have information readily available on the different types of rockets we use in AH and their use & lethality?  I've noticed differences from say when I fly the FW F-8 with its twelve rockets and rockets on American planes.  Were some of these air to air?  Which ones were more powerful or which ones were lighter when you get the choice in the hangar of two different types?  Any info would be appreciated.

Rocket damage values expressed in equivalent pounds of ordinance:
3.5" Rocket = 140 lbs (air to ground)
4.5" M8 Rocket = 93 lbs (air to ground)
HVAR 5" Rocket = 156 lbs (air to ground)
RS132 = 125 lbs (air to ground)
RS82 = 93 lbs (air to ground)
WGr21 = 200 lbs (air to air, time fused proximity)

[Elfie]

Since he's talking about the game, and that's the only thing that matters in the game, maybe it would be more productive to start there?

I do believe that ballistics are modelled pretty accurately for this game. The ballistics descriptions/articles/discussions posted above are pretty darn accurate for the game.

Depends mainly on convergence, Phtom. You could probably more easily demonstrate, on a webpage, the ballistics of the guns buy using the .target command, and taking pics of a given convergence at different ranges, repeating that process with a few different convergences and planes.

For a squad website thats an excellent idea. I used .target 200, .target 400 and .target 600 with my convergence at 400 for my tests.

[Murdr]

Projectile drop over time is constant.  In other words, a .50 cal will "drop" the same as a 30mm in an equal amount of time.  Doesnt matter if you define drop as decent from a level trajectory, *or loss of rate of ascent.  It is still a product of the acceleration of gravity.  So what it comes down to is 'time of flight to target'.  That will depend on muzzle velocity minus the projectiles parasitic drag over time.

So if you have a spit with .303s convergence set to 400 yards, and 20mms set to 400 yards, the game will elevate the barrels so that their respective trajectories will decend through the center of your site at that range (within dispersion tolerances).  The exact time of flight to target is going to be different for each respective gun type though.  The .303 gets to the target faster, so it has a flatter trajectory.  The 20mm with a lower muzzle velocity, and higher parasitic drag takes longer to get to the target, and needs a higher inital trajectory to reach the target a the same elevation.

The problem is that in Aces High you are firing from a moving platform, usually on a moving target.  Depending on the time of flight of the projectile, the target may be there for the higher velocity rounds to hit it, but not be in the same location by the time the lower velocity rounds get there.

The suggestions to use the .target are a good start.  Here is a discussion that touches on these topics >>click here<<.  Sorry, cant help on a chart of round drop over distance.

* Considering a reasonably level trajectory.  Obviously if drag and gravity are acting aginst a projectile from nearly the same vector, the high drag projectile will "drop" or "drop off" more.

[Elfie]

Projectile drop over time is constant. In other words, a .50 cal will "drop" the same as a 30mm in an equal amount of time.

Thats not a very accurate statement. How much a projectile drops is dependent on several factors such as, design and weight of the projectile itself, velocity of the round etc. A more aerodynamic projectile will retain it's velocity longer than a less aerodynamic projectile and will have a much flatter trajectory. (all other factors being equal)

Look up some ballistics graphs Murdr, the most readily available graphs are probably for hunting rounds such as the 30.06, 30-30 etc. In fact, those 2 particular rounds are an excellent example of what I am trying to describe here. The 30.06 has a pretty flat trajectory and the 30-30's trajectory is significantly worse. The 30mm round in AH has absolutely horrible ballistics compared to say the 20mm Hispano.

*edit* also, the longer a bullet is in flight, the more velocity it loses and the faster it drops. Again, look at ballistics graphs for a *visual aid* of what I am talking about.

*edit again* Actually, ballistics charts will show the same thing. Instead of a graph to look at, you will be looking at a series of numbers.

[Murdr]

I said over time, not over distance.  Velocity, and loss of velocity to drag are going to change the time to travel from point A to point B.  A high velocity round doesnt have a flatter trajectory because it drops less over time, it has a flatter trajectory because it gets to the target in less time.

[Elfie]

Originally posted by Murdr
I said over time, not over distance.  Velocity, and loss of velocity to drag are going to change the time to travel from point A to point B.  A high velocity round doesnt have a flatter trajectory because it drops less over time, it has a flatter trajectory because it gets to the target in less time.

Ah ok, I misunderstood what you were saying.

[Donzo]

Speaking of this .target thingy.  I just tried it offline and I have a question.  What is is supposed to look like and where should it be  (ok, two questions)? When I type in .target 400, I get a white target with blue rings that is about 30 degrees off my nose to the left, and that's where it stays.  I can fly in its direction and it eventually is in front of me.  If I turn around and go the other way, it is behind me.  Is this correct?  If so, how is this helpful?

[Bruno]

You have to fly due north then make adjustments to get lined up.

[Elfie]

What Bruno said. Then fire your guns and the bullets will punch holes in the target and you can then see where they land.

[Phtom]

Thanks for the target idea for the website Hubsonfire, that will work even better than any graph

And thank you Murdr for the info on the rockets!

[Morpheus]

Projectile drop over time is constant. In other words, a .50 cal will "drop" the same as a 30mm in an equal amount of time.

Really?

so I guess somewhere along the line someone rewrote trajectory and just decided to leave velocity out of the equation.

Very interesting... I'll have to go back to the drawing board when I head out to the range with my 50cal and expect to hit anything outside of 500 yards.

[Murdr]

I guess gravity treats different objects differently on the planet you're from.  Cartoon planet maybe...like gravity has no effect, until the little bullet looks down and realizes  he isnt in his cozy firing chamber any more...then he holds up an Acme sign that says "yikes" and starts to fall.

[zorstorer]

Morph he is talking about the time it takes a 30mm shell and a .50 cal bullet to hit the ground IF fired from perfectly horizontal guns on a perfectly flat firing range.  They will also hit at the same time a rock dropped from the same height as the gun barrels. (All fired and dropped at the same moment)