Author Topic: P-38 quirks (Read 1494 times)

SgtPappy · « **on:** June 12, 2006, 03:08:26 PM »

Hey everyone! Today I was reading up about the P-38L ... according to my sources, the L variant had internal cockpit heating, windsheild defrosters and engine problems at high altitude were all fixed. Is any of this actually true? I've been checking on countless sites and still havent found truly reliable information.

Also, I've been lead to believe that the P-38's actual climb rate under 5000' exceeded 4,500'/min. However in AHII, the climb is 1000'/min less.

Treize69 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 12, 2006, 04:16:55 PM »

I may be wrong, but I think the P-38L was actually optimised for fighting at medium to lower altitudes. By that point in the war the high-alt escort and defensive CAP missions were pretty much over, the majority of the fighting was ground support and air-cover over the front lines.

I do know that the L had the best cockpit heating (and defrosting, they used the same system) of the series, but considering the dreadful conditions in the models up until then, thats not really saying much...

SgtPappy · « **Reply #2 on:** June 12, 2006, 04:26:56 PM »

I guess that's true.. since there were barely any Luftwaffe planes left during 1944. In fact, I'm pretty sure that the cost to maintain and buy such an advanced prop fighter was so much and the earlier models so unreliable that there was only one FG left in the ETO by D-Day flying P-38's.

But just wondering Treize.. would you mind giving me the website (or book, w.e) where you found the fact stating that the P-38L had heaters/defrosters? Sorry for the pickiness, but some information I get is 35% false.

By the way, why do you despise Spitfires?

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #3 on:** June 12, 2006, 04:34:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Treize69
I may be wrong, but I think the P-38L was actually optimised for fighting at medium to lower altitudes. By that point in the war the high-alt escort and defensive CAP missions were pretty much over, the majority of the fighting was ground support and air-cover over the front lines.

I do know that the L had the best cockpit heating (and defrosting, they used the same system) of the series, but considering the dreadful conditions in the models up until then, thats not really saying much...

You are wrong. The P-38L was still a high altitude fighter. No change to the L from previous models was made to tune them for medium or low altitude performance. The mission may have changed, but the plane didn't change to suit it. Although the L did get the "trees" for rockets, rather than the "bazooka tubes", and the "trees" reduced drag and allowed a greater payload of rockets.

Also, the L was developed BEFORE the high altitude missions were still ongoing. The L model was deployed in mid 1944, meaning it was already fully developed for the most part in late 43 to early 44. In fact, because the USAAC/USAAF and the War Production board had declined to allow Lockheed to continue to upgrade the P-38, before the L model was even deployed, P-38 development had pretty much ended.

Treize69 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 12, 2006, 05:14:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SgtPappy
By the way, why do you despise Spitfires?

Fight for the Axis for a full tour in the AvA arena during an ETO setup and you'll see.

Between that and the Spit16s in the MA, I want to go back in time and smother Reginald Mitchell in his crib.

Karnak · « **Reply #5 on:** June 12, 2006, 06:29:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Treize69
Fight for the Axis for a full tour in the AvA arena during an ETO setup and you'll see.

Between that and the Spit16s in the MA, I want to go back in time and smother Reginald Mitchell in his crib.

Ja, das ist gut. Der Englander ist nicht gut und ist gelb.

(I am sure I butchered that horribly)

SgtPappy · « **Reply #6 on:** June 12, 2006, 06:37:29 PM »

lol... i didnt quite... umm underst.. yea......

what?

Angus · « **Reply #7 on:** June 12, 2006, 06:37:41 PM »

A little bird told me that the US fighter pilots operating in the ETO late-war were mostly equipped with heated suits. Does anyone here know more on this???
(the referrence relates to P51's, RAF pilots being jealous about their brothers in arms not freezing as bad)

Karnak · « **Reply #8 on:** June 12, 2006, 06:43:16 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SgtPappy
lol... i didnt quite... umm underst.. yea......

what?

He is expressing a desire to kill the designer of one of the primary fighters that was used in the fight against tyranny in WWII, before that fighter could be designed. I was, in "Dick and Jane" level German, mocking him for it.

Treize69 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 12, 2006, 07:29:17 PM »

You know I don't mean it Karnak, but you have to admit, by the time the 1944-45 planeset rolls around and you're still seeing nothing but Spitfires, it starts to get REAL old.

2 times through that RPS and I've yet to fight a P-38, and I killed more SpitVs (not counting Is, VIIIs, IXs, XIVs, and XVIs) than P-51s and P-47s combined for both months.

SgtPappy · « **Reply #10 on:** June 12, 2006, 07:53:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Angus
A little bird told me that the US fighter pilots operating in the ETO late-war were mostly equipped with heated suits. Does anyone here know more on this???
(the referrence relates to P51's, RAF pilots being jealous about their brothers in arms not freezing as bad)

Yea i was wondering that too Angus... after trying to figure out if the P-38L-5 had a heater, i was caught up in thinking that their suits were plugged into an outlet for heat like those Lancaster crews.

If anyone really knows the answer PLEASE HELP! lol THANKS!

Soulyss · « **Reply #11 on:** June 12, 2006, 08:07:11 PM »

I took a look in America's 100k and upon first skim through here's all I could find regarding heating;

Heating on early models was considered pretty poor, especialy for the high altitude escort missions being flown in Europe at the time.

It goes on to state the following;

Quote

"Cockpit heat was supplied by an intensifier tube in the right engine exhaust (both engines in late models) and controlled by the pilot. Heat outlets were arrange to supply warm air to the windshield and the removeable hatch via a flexible tube. A foot outlet could be closed off by using a heat control on the floor. On late airplanes a heated flying suit plug and rheostat were supplied. Ventilating air entered from a port on the left wing-fuselage fillet. The flow control was in the cockpit. There was no cooling system."

granted it's far cry from stating a certain model or serial # in the production run that incorporated the improved heating. But it does seem that lockheed did take some steps to improve pilot comfort in the later production runs, coupled with the fact that the 38 didn't see much life beyond WW2 seems to be a fairly good chance that the heated flying suit and 2nd intake would have apeared on the L models.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 12, 2006, 09:27:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SgtPappy
Yea i was wondering that too Angus... after trying to figure out if the P-38L-5 had a heater, i was caught up in thinking that their suits were plugged into an outlet for heat like those Lancaster crews.

If anyone really knows the answer PLEASE HELP! lol THANKS!

All you had to do was ask

image shows two 97th FS, 82nd FG P38 pilots in the heated suits. They were using them in the winter of 43-44. This is an MTO 38 group, but no doubt they were being used in England as well. These guys were flying early model 38s at the time, retiring their last G model in May of 44. Guys arriving from the states who had trained in Js were surprised to see them still using Gs and Hs in combat.

I talked to a 94th FS, 1st FG P38 driver one time about this. He said that on some missions he'd wrap old "Yank" magazined around his shins to try and ward off the cold by adding that insulation.

Soulyss · « **Reply #13 on:** June 12, 2006, 10:09:38 PM »

Yeah, yeah, yeah.... I was just holding down the fort till you could make an appearence.

Widewing · « **Reply #14 on:** June 12, 2006, 10:12:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SgtPappy
Yea i was wondering that too Angus... after trying to figure out if the P-38L-5 had a heater, i was caught up in thinking that their suits were plugged into an outlet for heat like those Lancaster crews.

If anyone really knows the answer PLEASE HELP! lol THANKS!

P-38Ls had a heater. Unfortunately, it was not much different from the heater in 1962 VW Beetle... If you actually detected heat, it was because you were on fire..

My regards,

Widewing