Author Topic: P-38 quirks (Read 1482 times)

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #15 on:** June 13, 2006, 04:21:35 AM »

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Originally posted by Soulyss
...coupled with the fact that the 38 didn't see much life beyond WW2...

It enjoyed nice long life in service of some foreign air forces. France retired their P-38s (F-5 recce) around '53 and the Honduran Air Force retired their P-38s about '71 or '72. The last time the P-38L saw action was in the "Soccer War" between Honduras and El Salvador in the late '60s.

ack-ack

SgtPappy · « **Reply #16 on:** June 13, 2006, 02:32:55 PM »

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Originally posted by Widewing
P-38Ls had a heater. Unfortunately, it was not much different from the heater in 1962 VW Beetle... If you actually detected heat, it was because you were on fire..

My regards,

Widewing

HA! It was THAT bad? That's gotta stink. But then again, the P-38L's were pretty well-performing - with their massive climb rate and accel. etc. - which, I'm guessing, made up of the heater defects.

Besides, having a heater plug in your suit must have been better than those early ice-box P-38's trying to fly all the way from the U.S. to Canada to Iceland then to England!

Debonair · « **Reply #17 on:** June 13, 2006, 02:56:21 PM »

i remember reading that in the P-38 cockpit your feet fried & everything else froze...what altitudes did they do the transatlantic flights at?

Simaril · « **Reply #18 on:** June 13, 2006, 04:04:11 PM »

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Quoted with minor amendment from Elite Series Vol. 1 U.S. Army Air Force:1 Development of the F-3 heated flying suit began in late 1943 and was standardized on 19 Feb 1944, It was a well designed 2 piece [ensemble] with an OD cotton/rayon twill jacket and bib-type trousers, and was intended to be worn over both thermal underwear and the standard wool service shirt and trousers, and could be worn under the B-15 jacket and A-15 trousers [both of which were made of brown leather lined with alpaca].

In combination, and with power supplied to the F-3, the combination was expected to protect wearers down to -60 degrees F (-50C).

Prior to 1944, there were less well developed suits creatively identified as the E-1, F-1 and F-2 heated flying suits. My refernce is short on pics of the intermediate suits, but the F-2 (standardized 8/43) is described as being a four piece unit, with electrically heated inserts that went into non-heated trousers and jacket. The electrical clothing was generally used as part of multiple layers, so crewman could have any number of a wide range of permutations. The F-2 and on had a chest level connector with a pigtailed cord that extended to the outer jacket, and allowed heated goggles to be plugged in there.

At first glance, the guys in Guppy's photo look like they're wearing just the inner suit; there is a visible cord but there's no visible thermostat (which arrived with the F-2A -- but I dont know what the placement was). The critical clue, though, is that the photo shows a 1 piece garment. That would mean the guys are wearing either the fairly early F-1 (24 volt, blue) or E-1 (12 volt, grey) -- which entered service all the way back to June 1941. These units had wire woven throughout the material, and could be opened as needed at the crotch without removing the entire garment.

Designers cliamed there was no shock risk to...um....critical components during ...um...relief operations, but I'd sure be nervous with an older suit.....

I think this is the first time my meager library delivered a requested detailed answer....

gripen · « **Reply #19 on:** June 13, 2006, 04:07:12 PM »

Maybe the P-38 was quite similar as Renault 2CV4; many were saying here in Finland that the 2CV4 is cold in winter time so local 2CV4 club decided test it. They put a meter inside and out side the car and measured temperatures. Conclusions were clear: There never was any colder inside car than outside so hypothesis was rejected...

gripen

SgtPappy · « **Reply #20 on:** June 13, 2006, 09:20:44 PM »

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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
It enjoyed nice long life in service of some foreign air forces. France retired their P-38s (F-5 recce) around '53 and the Honduran Air Force retired their P-38s about '71 or '72. The last time the P-38L saw action was in the "Soccer War" between Honduras and El Salvador in the late '60s.

ack-ack

With which country did the P-38L serve with in that war? or should I say F-38L, as by 1947, the USAAF had become the USAF and had redesignated their plane names. Too bad the P-38 retired in US service in 1949 though... had it stayed around for one more year, it would've shown its phenomenal capability in the Korean War. But I guess that huge amount of powder needed in order to maintain them and buy them was too much. After all, money seems to be everything...

Treize69 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 13, 2006, 10:02:23 PM »

I've often wondered how the 38L would have done in Korea, especially when you read that the main complaint the F-51 pilots had was the vulnerability of the merlin engine to ground fire.

2 engines might have been much more survivable.

Widewing · « **Reply #22 on:** June 13, 2006, 11:36:48 PM »

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Originally posted by Treize69
I've often wondered how the 38L would have done in Korea, especially when you read that the main complaint the F-51 pilots had was the vulnerability of the merlin engine to ground fire.

2 engines might have been much more survivable.

For that matter, there were over 400 P-47s in reserve and guard service at the start of the Korean War. I have never found an adequate answer as to why they were never deployed to Korea.

I suspect that the fighter mafia within the USAF didn't care for radial-engined fighters. Not sexy enough...

My regards,

Widewing

Treize69 · « **Reply #23 on:** June 14, 2006, 12:33:55 AM »

I know we had a unit of them (F-47s) here in Syracuse from 1947 on. As often as the 174th FW "Boys from Syracuse" have been deployed since the '80s, I find it odd how rarely they (and the other ANG units) were used before then.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #24 on:** June 14, 2006, 01:25:14 AM »

Dad came home from Korea to McGhee-Tyson in Knoxville, and he often commented on the fact that the Jugs there at McGhee-Tyson would have been a good thing to have over there.

Debonair · « **Reply #25 on:** June 14, 2006, 01:57:57 AM »

iirc Taiwanese P-47s had a bit of unofficial action with Chinese MiGs, dont know how it went, but have been hoping to learn more about these obscure skirmishes for a few years

gripen · « **Reply #26 on:** June 14, 2006, 02:18:32 AM »

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Originally posted by gripen
Maybe the P-38 was quite similar as Renault 2CV4...

Argh... it's Citroën 2CV4 of course.

gripen

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #27 on:** June 14, 2006, 10:01:57 AM »

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Originally posted by SgtPappy
With which country did the P-38L serve with in that war? or should I say F-38L, as by 1947, the USAAF had become the USAF and had redesignated their plane names. Too bad the P-38 retired in US service in 1949 though... had it stayed around for one more year, it would've shown its phenomenal capability in the Korean War. But I guess that huge amount of powder needed in order to maintain them and buy them was too much. After all, money seems to be everything...

In the Soccer War between Honduras and El Salvador, the P-38L served with the Honduran Air Force. That little war also saw the F4U, P-51 and a couple of other warbirds in action.

ack-ack

GlacierGirl · « **Reply #28 on:** June 14, 2006, 10:21:17 AM »

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Ja, das ist gut. Der Englander ist nicht gut und ist gelb.

Yes, That is good. The Englishman is not good and is yellow.
~~Habe Ich das richtig übersetzt?~~

AaronGGT · « **Reply #29 on:** June 18, 2006, 04:46:08 PM »

The B15 jacket was not a leather jacket. It had a green cotton outer layer, wool liner, knit cuffs, a fake fur collar, and two slash pockets, and sometimes a pen pocket on the arm. The one I owned didn't have the pen pocket. The leather jacket you might be thinking of is the classic fighter pilot's A2, which is of a similar overall cut to the B15, although with patch pockets and no fur on the collar, and with sateen lining.