Author Topic: bomber... throttle... grrr  (Read 627 times)

Offline kanati

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bomber... throttle... grrr
« on: June 12, 2006, 11:48:36 PM »
Ok...  I'm an old Air Warrior III vet so I know these planes are touchy at best and insanely hard to keep in the air at worst...  But I'm having a bit of an issue here.  I've tried just about everything I can think of to take off in a lancaster.  First off it seems like it takes far too much runway to start gaining ANY altitude, and after I do make it 10 feet off the ground or so it starts to dip back down...  Putting flaps up or down makes little difference, though putting them up (neutral) seems to kill almost ALL lift and you fall sooner.  Eventually you just hit a tree or hillside or whatever wanders into your path.  It really feels like I'm getting about 1/3 of the throttle I really need.  I even tried WEP and didn't see where that did ANYTHING.

Any clues?  I'm at the end of my rope...

(note that it feels soft in the throttle in fighters too but not even remotely as bad as in a bomber)

Offline Rolex

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bomber... throttle... grrr
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2006, 12:24:46 AM »
Did you calibrate stick and throttle?

Offline Schatzi

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bomber... throttle... grrr
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2006, 04:23:01 AM »
Reduce your fuel load to 25 or 50% in heavy bombers. Even with the fuel burn rate of 2 in the Main arena, that will take you across the map and back!

Also, choose a runway that is clear at its end - no hills trees etc.... best take one that goes out over the water.

Dont try to gain altitude too fast, after you cleared the treetops, level off and get some speed up. Popping a notch or two of flaps when you start running short on runway might also help.

As for WEP.... bombers dont have that ;). You can check if your throttle works fin by upping a plane that HAS WEP, like a P51. Go full throtthe and hit WEP button - if you get extra power, you are going full throttle.



Hope that helps you....



PS: Youre not the only one having trouble taking off in Buffs.....

Betty's first Bomber Mission
« Last Edit: June 13, 2006, 04:33:37 AM by Schatzi »
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Offline TequilaChaser

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bomber... throttle... grrr
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2006, 05:47:20 AM »
1 thing you might not be aware of, is most hvy bombers are already set to launch with 2 notches of flaps lowered from the get go, so if you take off, even in auto and then try to climbout from this standpoint you will never gain the speed you need, once you lift off and go wheels up level out for a little bit to build up speed. Say 150+ raise your flaps as speed builds, once all flaps are up(in) then hit ALT-X to go into autoclimb........

the Bomber will then climb at its default speed.......

then again you may have already figured this out......
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Schatzi

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bomber... throttle... grrr
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2006, 06:27:23 AM »
Even if he did, *I* hadnt TC!

Thanks for that tidbit of info!
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Offline trianglemoon

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bomber... throttle... grrr
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2006, 01:08:15 PM »
Hey Kanati!

I saw you and TBolt flying around last night, and heard some of your audio.  I tried replying, but I don't think you guys could hear me (I'm still learning the radio...)

I'm new, but my interest in the game is largely with the bombers, so I've been taking them out quite a bit.  I don't think I've tried the Lancaster yet, but I have flown the B-24 and B-17.  The B-24 is more responsive.  The B-17 is...difficult.  The stall horn is on for most of the climb.

What I've found works for me, at least for now, is this (note, you're taking advice from a newb if you follow this procedure, but it gets me in the air...):

1.  Full Throttle--Rotate at 110-120 IAS
2.  Clear ground, Gear Up
3.  Immediately level (very small climb) to gain some speed.
4.  About 30 seconds in, gently increase climb out.
5.  Switch to Bombardier (which essentially turns on AutoPilot)
6.  Gain some momentum, then begin climb.

Total time, 3 minutes or so.  The autopilot is quite effective in getting you the momentum you need to really climb out.  In the 17, though, I'm still only seeing +500 fpm, but I get about +250 fpm while turning.  The B-24 seems to do a little better.


Good luck.

Offline kanati

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bomber... throttle... grrr
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2006, 05:12:15 PM »
Thanks for the tips guys.  I'll give it a go tonight.

Triangle we didn't get any radio chatter except for ours.  I did see you in the list, but wasn't sure if you could hear us or not.   :)

Offline Schatzi

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bomber... throttle... grrr
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2006, 05:26:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by trianglemoon
Hey Kanati!

I saw you and TBolt flying around last night, and heard some of your audio.  I tried replying, but I don't think you guys could hear me (I'm still learning the radio...)

I'm new, but my interest in the game is largely with the bombers, so I've been taking them out quite a bit.  I don't think I've tried the Lancaster yet, but I have flown the B-24 and B-17.  The B-24 is more responsive.  The B-17 is...difficult.  The stall horn is on for most of the climb.

What I've found works for me, at least for now, is this (note, you're taking advice from a newb if you follow this procedure, but it gets me in the air...):

1.  Full Throttle--Rotate at 110-120 IAS
2.  Clear ground, Gear Up
3.  Immediately level (very small climb) to gain some speed.
4.  About 30 seconds in, gently increase climb out.
5.  Switch to Bombardier (which essentially turns on AutoPilot)
6.  Gain some momentum, then begin climb.

Total time, 3 minutes or so.  The autopilot is quite effective in getting you the momentum you need to really climb out.  In the 17, though, I'm still only seeing +500 fpm, but I get about +250 fpm while turning.  The B-24 seems to do a little better.


Good luck.



Sounds good advice to me :).

Instead of No 5 you can simply press X for autolevel, ALT X for autospeed (at full throttle thats autoclimb) or SHIFT X for autoangle (plane is kept at the current climb rate).
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Offline Hap

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bomber... throttle... grrr
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2006, 06:38:39 AM »
Kanati, when you get onto the runway tap your w key twice to remove the 2 notches of flaps.  Then don't touch anything until your drones have taken position on your left and right.  Or if you've not checked the "formation" box in the hangar, don't touch anything until you've got some air under you.  Then turn towards your target.

hap

p.s.  i fly bishops and if you see me on ask for help.  It beats being frustrated.

Offline kanati

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bomber... throttle... grrr
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2006, 09:53:28 AM »
Actually just let the autopilot get me into the air last night and had no problems with the lanc after that.  Again.  Thanks for the help guys.   :)

Offline Max

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bomber... throttle... grrr
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2006, 10:22:39 AM »
Kanati -  2 more Lancaster specific tips:

1. Always check your runways from the tower (F3) for mountains, hills and obstructions. ROC is VERY slow once you're wheels up.

2. If upping a Lancaster with 50% + fuel, as you spool up the engines, hold down the C  (left wheel brake) V (right  wheel brake) and SPACEBAR  (main brakes) until max manifold/boost pressure is achieved.

Offline Stoney74

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bomber... throttle... grrr
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2006, 12:36:26 PM »
As far as when to retract flaps in a heavy bomber, this is a generic rule of thumb:

Look at your rate of climb before retracting.  If you haven't established a positive rate of climb, don't retract any flaps.  Look for about 300-500 fpm rate of climb on the vertical speed indicator, then retract the first notch.  Once you've established 300-500 fpm using only 1 notch, then you can retract that last notch of flaps.

Also, look at the field elevation.  If you're upping heavy Lancs with lots of fuel at a base above 5K, its going to take a lot more runway to take off since the air is less dense, and the engines don't make as much power.  I think there are a few MA fields that even go as high as 8K.  All the bombers when heavy really take off like pigs when you depart a field that high.  The U.S. bombers deal with it better, especially the B-17, which maintains a higher rate of climb than the others as you increase altitude.  I think the engines are a bit better with altitude, and the 2000-8000 lb bomb weight difference over the 24 and the Lanc probably make the most difference.  Like Schatzi said, fuel has a big weight penalty as well, since 1 gallon of gas weighs 6 pounds.  That extra 1000 gallons of gas at 100% fuel equals 6000 pounds.  

Sea level bases, I usually don't take off with flaps, but anytime I use a base higher than 4K, I use the flaps.  Also, flaps can help you get over some of those low obstacles that seem to always be magically planted right in the departure path.

One technique I use before our squad's bomber night is:  I get in a jeep and drive all the runways to see if the departure path is clear.  Sometimes, from the tower view, you can't really get a good idea of how the surrounding hills impact the runways.

Good luck

Offline Simaril

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bomber... throttle... grrr
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2006, 04:30:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by trianglemoon


...snip...

 The B-17 is...difficult.  The stall horn is on for most of the climb.

...snip...



As a general rule, if you're consistantly hearihng stall horn doing a procedure it means you're pushing the aircraft too hard. That usually also means you're losing performance.

(before anyone else says it, "riding the horn" is an important part of turn fighting, since it means you're right on the edge and often maximizing the turn rate. Trouble is that if you push past that sweet spot and into destabilizing loss of lift, you can lose everything you've gained in a heartbeat.)

Anyway, in buffs you shouldnt put up with the horn. If you're hearing it, you're losing both forward velocity and climb rate since the plane is clawuing to just stay in the air.

Level out and build some speed, and you usually will get better climb rate and no horn when you head upward again! This is the key to climbing at high alt in MANY fighters even -- if you pull back more to climb, you can actually lose alt, but if you flatten out and gain speed you can angle up pretty easily at a more shallow, faster angle.

You can get the same effect by increasing the autoclimb speed -- open the text bix and type .speed xxx, where xxx is the actual (white line) speed you want to climb at. If that number is much higher than ciurrent airsped, be ready for the nose to dip for a bit.....
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