Author Topic: For our children?  (Read 2116 times)

Offline Hawklore

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4798
For our children?
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2006, 10:03:22 AM »
That book only has cartoon images in it.

My mom had gotten it for my brothers..

It's rather mild.
"So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart.
Trouble no one about their religion;
respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours.
Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life." - Chief Tecumseh

Offline SunKing

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3726
For our children?
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2006, 10:12:17 AM »
Nevermind the books.


Link

Offline Goomba

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 331
For our children?
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2006, 10:44:55 AM »
Quote
Yep... auto shop. Private schools could cater to kids who might not want to be accountants ar graphic artists or even continue higher education.


Gotta disagree here, lazs...


I went through a lot of trouble to get my son the best public education I could find.  I haven't the money for private.

What used to be our county Vo-Tech high school has, over the last three years, entirely rebuilt itself into a multi-disciplinary, multi-curricula advanced placement and magnet high school.  High school kids select their 'major' as freshmen, must apply, interview and be selected to attend, and are generally introduced to the dynamics and responsibilities they'll face as college students.

They offer Automotive Sciences, Visual & Performing Arts, Hospitality Management, Networking and Information Systems, Digital Design and Production, and are expanding with a couplea-three new fields next year.  All with the same core subject grounding across the board.  Very, very strong stuff for a public high school.

I'm not saying your wrong about the need for improved public schooling...there are definitely not enough places like this, but there are some shining examples of public schools gone right.

I think public schools will advance by untold leaps in quality and performance, as soon as unionized teachers are prepared to prove competency and expertise in their field.  Regular and decisive competency testing, accountability...all those things the rest of us deal with daily.


Offline wrag

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3499
For our children?
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2006, 09:37:44 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SaburoS
Actually the irony is kind of funny.
We have a group basically telling other's how to rear their kids.
Everyone should raise their own kids, not other's.
You tell your own kids what books are okay and what isn't.
As to having sex with someone with AIDS....where is this coming from...really wierd.
Sure every parent must be held accountable for their child, not others.
What you're supporting is the censorship of some books that you have a problem with, that other parents might not.

I speak from experience of seeing literary classics such as 'Raisin In The Sun' and some others being banned from some schools because of a minority of parents' objection to a few sentences.

Kids are smarter and tougher than you're giving them credit for. You want to insulate them from the real world? Isn't going to happen no matter how many things you ban via books, tv, movies.


The way this is working, if I read the report correctly, is the school is allowing the child access to the books.

So the parent telling the child what book is OK and what isn't  has very little or even no affect.

I don't see it as censorship so much as control of WHEN and HOW a child is introduced to some things.

You see irony here and think it's funny?   How interesting.  So you are saying leave the books out?  To place them anywhere else is banning them?

I see something much different.

Insulate them from the real world?  Most people are already there.  Few actually truely understand the REAL world.  Most when they come close to understanding the REAL world start coming up with avoidance tactics in their mind.  Like the famous "it won't happen to me", or "it can't happen here", "that happens to other people",  "this court order will protect me", "the people will never let that happen", "the police will protect me", that list is a long one.

Ya the child will learn it.  The child needs that information in order to proceed through life safely and hopefully with some happiness.

Again the books are not banned.

What is happening is parents are trying to control access to certain information for their children.  Should a parent wish it so, their child will be granted access to these books.

Kids are smarter and tougher then I think?  That may be correct.  Then again exposing someone to something they are not ready for can cause considerable problems for them down the road.  Some children are NOT ready but leaving those books out for a curious mind can cause some harm.

Isn't it scientifically proven that children develope both mentally and physicaly at different speeds?

By Thud

"Wonderful AIDS comparison though. And I love how you play around with those CAPS, it makes your post so much more powerful and telling. "

OK, glad you like it.





BTW  You actually believe this???

by SaburoS

"Most likely children at that age would just say "Ewwwee!! Grosss!" and check out another book. Not going to change their sexuality or their behavior. Slippery slope to ban things, whether it be guns, abortion, books, what's next? Rather our government didn't decide what is best for us. We'll survive just fine."

Huh?   Most children I know are curious.  They'll look.  They wanna know things.  Expose them at a young enough age and YES it will alter their behavior.  As the twig is bent so grows the tree.  BTW there is Scientific evidence to prove this.  It is also part of the argument used by the NEA for putting certain teaching practices into place.

Where do you keep coming up with BAN???

You wanna read any of those books who is gonna prevent you?
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline lukster

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2581
For our children?
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2006, 10:22:43 AM »
Liberals seem to have no problem forcing their values on others. Let there be even the slightest perception of role reversal though and they scream like stuck pigs. Why isn't the ACLU helping these parents preserve their parental influence and authority?  :rolleyes:

Offline Chairboy

  • Probation
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8221
      • hallert.net
For our children?
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2006, 10:40:54 AM »
Lukster, help me out: Which specific civil liberties are the ones that say one parent can restrict another parent's child from reading something?  I'm flipping through my bill of rights here and just not seeing it.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline lukster

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2581
For our children?
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2006, 10:43:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
Lukster, help me out: Which specific civil liberties are the ones that say one parent can restrict another parent's child from reading something?  I'm flipping through my bill of rights here and just not seeing it.


The liberty of the parent to control what their child reads is what is being restricted. Liberals apparently have decided that they know what is best for everyone and that prudish or religous people should have no say in the values instilled in their kids.

Offline lukster

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2581
For our children?
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2006, 10:51:23 AM »
When our government approves school vouchers this whole argument goes away. Until then, it's my money, my child, and the school's damn well better teach them what I want.

Offline Thud

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 476
For our children?
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2006, 10:57:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lukster
The liberty of the parent to control what their child reads is what is being restricted. Liberals apparently have decided that they know what is best for everyone and that prudish or religous people should have no say in the values instilled in their kids.


That's some convenient reasoning you've got there.
If there are any people who feel that their children should not be exposed to a certain medium, it should be restricted immediately?
Hell, if that view is adopted nothing would ever be available to children anymore...

 

Again the forcing upon others is perpetrated by those restricting, not those allowing...

Offline lukster

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2581
For our children?
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2006, 11:02:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thud
That's some convenient reasoning you've got there.
If there are any people who feel that their children should not be exposed to a certain medium, it should be restricted immediately?
Hell, if that view is adopted nothing would ever be available to children anymore...

 

Again the forcing upon others is perpetrated by those restricting, not those allowing...


All these parents are asking is that the sexually explicit books be placed in an area that requires parental consent for access. Why would anyone without an agenda have a problem with this? It's not like they're demanding that prayer be banned in school or anything like it.



There are many people who believe that sexual taboos are religious nonsense and would very much like for society to share their values. These are the people that would force their values on the children of others. These people have no respect for the parental authority of others that don't share their values.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2006, 11:09:18 AM by lukster »

Offline Chairboy

  • Probation
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8221
      • hallert.net
For our children?
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2006, 11:22:51 AM »
Lukster, with respect, since the group you support is the one that's trying to restrict access to these books, wouldn't _they_ be the ones pushing the agenda?

BTW, lukster, are you a parent?  I ask because I am, and I'm curious about the origin of your viewpoint.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline Furious

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3243
For our children?
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2006, 11:24:27 AM »
if you've raised your children well, then you don't need to be afraid of a book.

Offline lukster

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2581
For our children?
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2006, 11:32:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
Lukster, with respect, since the group you support is the one that's trying to restrict access to these books, wouldn't _they_ be the ones pushing the agenda?

BTW, lukster, are you a parent?  I ask because I am, and I'm curious about the origin of your viewpoint.



These parents discovered that there are books in their childrens school library that they consider inappropriate for their children. What's the difference between asking that they be given control over whether their own kids have access to them and asking that they have control over whether their kids see R and X rated movies?  

I raised 2 boys and 2 girls and now have 8 grandkids. While I no longer have any school age children (youngest is in college) I still pay taxes which operate public schools and will always support a parent's right to instill their own values in their offspring.

Offline lukster

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2581
For our children?
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2006, 11:35:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Furious
if you've raised your children well, then you don't need to be afraid of a book.


Part of raising your children well is controlling what movies they see and what books they read.

The only people that want the state to have control over their kid's minds are the one's whose agenda is currently being espoused by the state. They better beware, the state may not always represent their interests.

Offline Thud

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 476
For our children?
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2006, 11:39:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lukster
There are many people who believe that sexual taboos are religious nonsense and would very much like for society to share their values. These are the people that would force their values on the children of others. These people have no respect for the parental authority of others that don't share their values.


I don't have the slightest intention to force my view upon those of other opinion, I merely advocate keeping those books there. Forcing the contents upon others is not a motive or consideration in the matter.