View from the cockpit (for Nate and Fly)

[-lynx-]

Just a thought guys:

In every single sim the view from the cockpit is obstructed by horizontal/vertical bars.

Granted, the darn things are there but in RL all it takes is a slight movement of the head up/down etc to actually see the part of the airspace "hidden" behind the bar. In AH the head movement can be executed via keyboard commands but it's such a pain in the neck!   Why don't you guys make life easier for all concerned and make the stuff semi-transparent?

On one hand it'll be accurate representation of the actual view from the cockpit. On the other - it'll make life of every pilot sooooo much easier. Glance to the, say, left will actually show what I can see on the left, without employing complicated use of programmed buttons or (God forbid!) even the keyboard  . I don't really know if it's possible to do but my guess is that the current setup comes from the days when cockpit was just an overlay on the view screen. Nowadays it's all dynamically generated and stuff - surely it's doable?

Please understand, I'm not advocating increased field of view around, say, engine cowling, wings or tail - those things were there and there's no way around it. But canopy bars are just a pain in the neck and are neither realistic nor neccessary.

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-lynx-
13 Sqn RAF

[This message has been edited by -lynx- (edited 05-11-2000).]

[MANDOBLE]

-lynx-, I agree absolutelly with you about the problem with the cockpit obstacles. But making those bars transparent is an ungly workaround. Perhaps, a less constly and no so drastic workaround would be just to draw the labels over the cockpit parts when the planes are inside the FOV.... .....but what FOV? In fact this FOV should be the summatory of all potential FOVs obtained in the current view but modificating the head pos going up/down/backward/forward/left/right to the extremes.

[glopuk]

Map your diagonal views so you can see round them, and just look forward left / forward right as the real pilots had to do to look round them.

Works for me  

Glop, out.

[-lynx-]

Glop - that's exactly my point: you can do it but it's a pain. So, why add difficulties to life when it's complicated enough? Plus, get into a La5 or a 38 - you can look fwd/left or fwd/right until you get cross-eyed, the bar's still there .

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-lynx-
13 Sqn RAF

[Fury]

 

Originally posted by -lynx-:
Just a thought guys:
.......
Please understand, I'm not advocating increased field of view around, say, engine cowling, wings or tail - those things were there and there's no way around it. But canopy bars are just a pain in the neck and are neither realistic nor neccessary.

I don't have a problem with the bars.  Well, actually I do have problems, but I think the problems I have make the game more realistic and fun for me.

I think it would be a dangerous precedence to start making parts of the airplane transparent.  Who's to say the tail section won't be next?

If the canopy bars were there in real life, then I like them in the game -- as I said, just adds realism.  If they were not there in real life and HTC added them to make our lives miserable, well I guess I still like them in the game.  The P38 is the worst plane as far as viewing goes, but I still fly it when I can.

Are you saying the canopy bars in HTC are not realistic because they were never on the real life airplanes, or is there another reason they are not realistic?

Fury

[Pongo]

The only problem I see with your idea is that it removes some of the advantages and falour of the aircraft. IE I like the LA5 but if it definatly has a view disadvantage... Spit feels the same to me.
I think this is worth preserving. Some of the planes cause me fits like the front up view on the 205....But maybe the real AC had the same limitation in relation to its contemporarys? Never sat in one of these babies so I dont know.

[miko2d]

 Guys, you forget that you have two eyes!!!
In RL you do not need to move your head to look through a canopy bar.
 Just make a little experiment yourselves - stretch your arm with 3 fingers extended and look at the building across the street, see how much of the view is obscured by your fingers.
 None in my case.
 Unless an enemy plane flies right up my nose, I could see it well in real life, with one eye on the other. I am not even talking about shifting my head by half an inch I would not even notice doing.

 The vertical bars should be transparent.
miko--

[-lynx-]

Thank you miko - that's exactly what I mean.

And no, absolutely not to tail, back or cowling "transparency" - those were parts you couldn't see around! Bars - different (IMHO of course) story altogether.

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-lynx-
13 Sqn RAF

[CptTrips]

If you accept the premise that cockpit bars and bracing never interfered with the pilots visibility, then its hard to explain why they ever bothered to develop bubble canopies.

Wab

[This message has been edited by AKWabbit (edited 05-11-2000).]

[Superfly]

There is absolutely no way that we will ever make the cockpit bars transparent.  This is not an arcade game.  Things like cockpit bars, are what gives balance to game play.  For example, the f4u-1c is a powerful plane, but it is a squeak to fly and the 6 view is horrible.  This forces the pilot to truly spend some time flying and developing skills of that individual plane to master it.  Things like padlock, automatic targetting, disappearing cockpits and the like are best saved for console and arcade games.  We want and expect our game to be a challenge, but not be so difficult that it restricts everyone from enjoying it.  It puts you at your wits end, and adds to the immersion and intensity of the game.

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John "SUPERFLY" Guytan - Art Director
HiTech Creations
"Happiness is a warm gun momma" - The Beatles
-=HELLFIRE=- SQUAD

[Rojo]

Here, here, Superfly. AH developed their novel approach to views (i.e. head movement) to simulate as realistically as possible the limitations of these aircraft.  It's a fine compromise between realism and PC-induced limitations, and is the standard to live up to by all other sims.  Mapping the head-movement to a hat is the obvious solution; but even if you don't have a hat to spare (my setup only has one, which I use for views), I find it only a minor convenience to use the keyboard for minor and temporary head adjustments.

Finally, if you make the canopy bow/frame transparent, one could argue that you should do the same to the edges of wings, seatbacks, engine cowlings, and the like.  Afterall, a pilot moved is head all over the place to see around these other objects too. If a target disappears below the cowling, the pilot was apt to move his head or lift slightly in the seat to visually track him.

No, the only next step that truly makes sense is to develop the high resolution vitual reality gear with true head-tracking capability, then writing the support code into AH.  Any thoughts on that, Superfly?

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Sabre, a.k.a. Rojo
(S-2, The Buccaneers)

[Swager]

Keep the bars!  I move the plane to look in blind spots.  I like it the way it is!  Makes ya alittle bit more aware.  Makes ya work for it!!    

I believe making the bars transparent would take away from the game!  Just my opinion!

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Swager
I/JG2~Richthofen~
"Damn.....I can't believe I missed that shot!!!"
 
JG2 "Richthofen"

[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 05-11-2000).]

[StSanta]

YEH Superfly!

I fly the 109 and 190; the former has a pretty bad forward view, yet I would not dwant to have them semi transparent when i can simulate how the real pilots got around it.

I mean, I LOVE this feature; the 109 cockpit sucked in real life and it does here too.

Now, with regards to the 190 one, I am not sure what the black bar at 12 high really is. Ruins the bubble canopy thingy, but I guess this was the way it was in real life?



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StSanta
II/JG2

[Beegerite]

Lynx;
I used to think that until the other night when a m8 informed me that I could put a phonebook under my bellybutton my using the PgUp and PgDn keys to raise and lower my view in conjunction with the forward and aft movement and then save the head position.  Amazing what I can accomplish if I would only RTFM (Read the F#&^*(^ Manual).
Beeg

 

Originally posted by -lynx-:
Glop - that's exactly my point: you can do it but it's a pain. So, why add difficulties to life when it's complicated enough? Plus, get into a La5 or a 38 - you can look fwd/left or fwd/right until you get cross-eyed, the bar's still there  .

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[Citabria]

 http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum8/HTML/000488.html

this topic was posted in light of such features as transparent bars and pilots without craniums or headsets/leather helmets.