'No Habla Espagnol'--A potential discrimination suit

[Neubob]

I've been on the road for the last 3 days, listening to a lot of radio, mostly in Eastern and Central PA. The one thing they couldn't stop talking about was the owner of this Cheesesteak shop that posted a sign by the cash register reading: 'This is AMERICA: WHEN ORDERING 'PLEASE SPEAK ENGLISH'

The reaction has been intense, both in support and in offense to this neutrally-worded request. Needless to say, it has attracted much attention to this sub shop, but, more importantly, it has posed the question: should business owners be able to discriminate based on their prospective customers' ability to communicate in English.

As a son of two people who moved to the US and spent the subsequent 2 1/2 decades mastering the English langauge to better function (serve, take advantage of opportunities) within American society, I agree with this shop-owner. Nobody ever asked us to forget our native Russian, and we continue to practice our native language and maintain our fluency to this day. It should be, however, a basic expectation that residents of this nation master what is, for now at least, our only official national language.

Others believe that this is an act that discriminates specifically against Hispanics. I think this accusation is bogus. First of all, the sign does not specify which language the staff of this restaurant are most commonly faced with in place of English. Secondly, and, more importantly, if it is people of Hispanic origin that are most likely to reside in the states but forego any attempts at the most basic, most functional social assimilation, it is then a case of them shunning American society, not the other way around. As most any productive immigrant will tell you, you accept certain realities when you move to a foriegn nation.

Here's the link to the article.

Famous Philly Cheesesteak shop in the cross-hairs

Note to Skuzzy: This is not at all a shot at Rule #16. The fact that you nailed me on it simply reminded me of this story.

[lasersailor184]

Oh no!  Not geno's!


Anyway, in my first year of German class I was able to effectively communicate what food I wanted, to ask where the library was and to tell  you what color my socks were.  

I wouldn't expect someone fresh from mexico to speak any better english then I did when I took the first year of german.  But, in this case that's all that is needed.

[Neubob]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
Oh no!  Not geno's!


Anyway, in my first year of German class I was able to effectively communicate what food I wanted, to ask where the library was and to tell  you what color my socks were.  

I wouldn't expect someone fresh from mexico to speak any better english then I did when I took the first year of german.  But, in this case that's all that is needed.

You're right. In fact, some of the first books I remember appearing in my home were big, thick Russian-English/English-Russian dictionaries. It seems pretty self-evident that it's not just respectful to the society into which you've arrived, but it's infinitely beneficial to oneself to learn the language. How they possibly justify protecting this tendency to remain isolated in non-English-speaking pockets? Like it or not, if you're here to stay, you'll need to wander out into the open eventually.

[Debonair]

See Rule #4

[ASTAC]

I have been all over the world with the Navy.

We don't always stop at tourist ports or resorts. I do not expect the local businesses to speak english..

as our businessses should not be expected to speak any other language.

I'm so sick of this "you can't offend anybody" crap.
It makes us all victims and slaves to a few groups of people.

I may make a bid for office one day just to publicly not be "PC"
Not with any expectation to win, but just to make a point.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Neubob


Others believe that this is an act that discriminates specifically against Hispanics.

Says who and where does it say that it was the Hispanic community that complained about this guy's sign?  


ack-ack

[Neubob]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Says who and where does it say that it was the Hispanic community that complained about this guy's sign?  


ack-ack

That was the focus of most of the radio reports I heard. Furthermore, it was a Hispanic City Counsel member that has turned this into a pet project, some of his quotes (I do not recall them verbatim), strongly indicated that this 'discrimination' was more or less targeted.

[ASTAC]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Says who and where does it say that it was the Hispanic community that complained about this guy's sign?  


ack-ack

It probrably was some "Lib" whitey that said it was offensive to hispanics....We create our own problems by bringing to light stuff the "victims" probrably don't notice or don't give a **** about.

[Neubob]

Originally posted by ASTAC
It probrably was some "Lib" whitey that said it was offensive to hispanics....We create our own problems by bringing to light stuff the "victims" probrably don't notice or don't give a **** about.

Also, I do remember one of the DJs saying that a 'No Habla Espagnol' sign would have been a less 'proud' method of achieving the same effect. Given the neighborhood, it was a pretty simple assumption on his part.

I've got to agree with ASTAC, however. It's more characteristic of a English-speaking liberal to get all bent out of shape over something like this.

The people calling in, outraged that their fair city was about to recieve yet another crippling blow to their so-called reputation, were all pretty fluent. Not a single foreign accent among them, unless you count 'South-Philly' as an accent, and most of those thought Geno was within his rights.

[Goomba]

My position is nothing new for anybody who's already seen my rant on the subject.

Like Neubob (and the rest of us BTW) I'm a proud son of an immigrant family (2nd gen Sicilian), and proud of my family history.  However, I'm American, not Italian.  Period.

My family members who immigrated here flatly refused to teach Italian to the kids and grandkids.  "We're Americans", my grandfather used to say by way of explanation.  Oh, yeah...they also asked permission.  Go figure.

I applaud Geno's and everybody else who is attempting to make an important point.  If a tourist approachs the counter at Geno's, and they are not masters of the English language, you can bet they'll be helped politely.  The point is NOT about xenophobia, not even English...it's about respect.

The guy's trying to make a point, not to non-English speakers, but to the millions of criminals floating around who don't have a right to be here, and still demanding everything be made to accomodate them.

IMO, any claims that the signage is specifically targeted against Hispanics can simply show me where it says anything about Hispanics, or any language but English.  Nope...nothing there.  The request clearly applies across the board.  Based onthe same unfounded logic, one could claim that they're discriminating against Swahili, but I don't expect much of an outcry over that.

Like I said, it really is about a socio-political point, and not about being unwilling to help someone out.  Geno's is dependent on tourist money like many in Philadelphia, and isn't out to ruin their business.  The owner himself has said as much in interviews.

ASTAC makes a good point...a guest visitor in another country with any manners at all will at least try to speak in the local tongue, and hope for some help.  To try, is to show a little respect.  For OUR culture and OUR laws.

Legal Immigration is Good.  Illegal Immigration is a crime.

Try getting into a South American country without a visa, and see what happens.  Illegal immigration is criminal there, too.

[ChickenHawk]

I thought a private business could refuse service to anyone as long as it was posted.  I see signs all the time that read "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."  You can yell and scream and picket the place but a private business doesn't owe you anything.

Personally I think this is a step in the right direction and I hope that sub shop sticks with it.

On a side note, I'm taking my family down to Mexico in a few months and guess what were doing to prepare?

Wait for it.

Here it comes.

We're learning Spanish.

Oh, to actually be able to communicate in a foreign country by learning the language.  What a concept.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by ASTAC
I have been all over the world with the Navy.

We don't always stop at tourist ports or resorts. I do not expect the local businesses to speak english..

as our businessses should not be expected to speak any other language.

I'm so sick of this "you can't offend anybody" crap.
It makes us all victims and slaves to a few groups of people.

I may make a bid for office one day just to publicly not be "PC"
Not with any expectation to win, but just to make a point.

But... everyone understands English. All you have to do is speak it slower and louder.

[ASTAC]

Originally posted by Sandman
But... everyone understands English. All you have to do is speak it slower and louder.

There are more than a few a-holes on the ship that thought that..


I found the best way to be treated like a human being overseas is to at least try...They applaud the effort and will be quite helpful....except in one particular european country that will remain nameless, that seem to get quite alot of enjoyment being rude to Americans, even when you can speak enough of their language to conduct business transactions

[Angus]

English is the secod most spoken first language of the world, after Spanish.
That's AFAIK, and I am discarding China and perhaps too much of India, for the dialect difference is great enough for individuals from i.e. North and south China, to understand a word. They can write each other though....
English is the most common second language of the world. By far far and far. (The French are always pissed of about that )
But that's just English.
If you go to people settling in your country, be it an English speaking one or not, I at least regard it as minimal courtesy to the host to pick up the lingo. DOT.
The benefit of it being English is then double.
Firstly, as explained above, it's a very common language.
Secondly, it's in the basics, a very easy language.

There is a little catch though. Imagine this in my town:
"THIS IS ICELAND. WHEN ORDERING 'PLEASE SPEAK ICELANDIC"
And yet a dead one. Uncommon language, and most people speak 3 languages or even more. And tourism is at large.
But how about:
"CES'T LA BELLE FRANCE. DANS VOTRE RESTAURANT ON PARLAIT EXCLUSIVEMENT FRANCAIS"

[nirvana]

Like Astac said, if I were to go to any non-English speaking country I would not expect them to accomodate my lack of knowledge of their language.  That's just visiting, if I were to actually move to a non-english speaking country, well, i'd sure as hell invest some time into learning THEIR language.

From what i've heard, Europeans are at least bi-lingual, but then again, their countries are like American states to an extent.