Author Topic: Allies vs Axis Arena: some reflexions (Read 2528 times)

TheBug · « **Reply #45 on:** June 19, 2006, 08:07:18 AM »

Correct!

A necessary sacrifice to redefine the arena.

storch · « **Reply #46 on:** June 19, 2006, 08:17:20 AM »

Dear AvA staff,

Thank you for your time and effort in providing these setups for us.

storch · « **Reply #47 on:** June 19, 2006, 08:33:09 AM »

I disagree with thebug. while I personally prefer to be a 109 every day there are others that prefer other rides. the setups have been challenging. this is what makes them good to some of us. this particular setup has been extremely frustrating for me. The only plane I like in the IJ inventory is the Ki61. try flying that against N7, reddog or 1duke1 if they are in spitVs. the outcomes of fights between the spitv and the zeke have all come down to the skill of the players. this is exactly the kind of setup we need to see more of. The idea for the setup was came from the fertile if not somewhat devious mind of MrFork but the refinement into what it is, came from TexMurphy. One can hardly say that the AvA staff is not receptive to ideas from the players. On the contrary they have demonstrated that they are very open to suggestions and implement them fairly quickly if they are ideas of merit.

I agree with Tex regarding Kev, Kev's knowledge of things spitfire is respectable. In that spirit why not come up with your ideal setup Kev and present it in this fora, put it up for discussion.

storch · « **Reply #48 on:** June 19, 2006, 08:39:02 AM »

shifty, I'm not a great player, hell I'm not even good. however the second part of your statement, the one where you say I say you guys are timid, that part is indeed correct. you guys are amazingly timid. but thats ok we shoot down all comers, or die trying

TheBug · « **Reply #49 on:** June 19, 2006, 08:45:44 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by storch
I disagree with thebug.

Valid points for keeping the AvA the way that it is, but isn't that the problem for most right now---The way that it is. I wished it worked out the way you're thinking Storch, but the past dictates otherwise. Speaking mostly in regards to low numbers. Without change there will be no change.

Kev367th · « **Reply #50 on:** June 19, 2006, 08:51:14 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by storch
I disagree with thebug. while I personally prefer to be a 109 every day there are others that prefer other rides. the setups have been challenging. this is what makes them good to some of us. this particular setup has been extremely frustrating for me. The only plane I like in the IJ inventory is the Ki61. try flying that against N7, reddog or 1duke1 if they are in spitVs. the outcomes of fights between the spitv and the zeke have all come down to the skill of the players. this is exactly the kind of setup we need to see more of. The idea for the setup was came from the fertile if not somewhat devious mind of MrFork but the refinement into what it is, came from TexMurphy. One can hardly say that the AvA staff is not receptive to ideas from the players. On the contrary they have demonstrated that they are very open to suggestions and implement them fairly quickly if they are ideas of merit.

I agree with Tex regarding Kev, Kev's knowledge of things spitfire is respectable. In that spirit why not come up with your ideal setup Kev and present it in this fora, put it up for discussion.

Ok then let me think about it, given that
1) It's unlikely a slight pre or post D-Day scenario will fly as it would most probably involve having a XVI (LF IXe) in it
2) By the same token I wouldn't pick 1941

Bit of info Storch -
How much fun would your fights have been with a historical matched Spit v Zeke?
given the Spit would be -
1) Our old Vc
2) Seafire L III (basically naval version of our old Vc)
3) Spit VIII
4) Seafire L IIc, not the very early rare Seafire IIc we have.
5) Using a sub with a low alt performance similar to the LIII, for e.g. the F IX

Is there a list you use for aircraft service dates?

Funnily enough I was all for derating the old Vc, but it has shown up now as a big hole in the planeset.
a) Major variant early 42 through mid 43
b) Big part of early Far east scenarios
c) Perfect sub for the LIII, also needed Far East/Pacific scenarios.

Oh well

Shifty · « **Reply #51 on:** June 19, 2006, 09:06:32 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Oldman731

If I can pull any sense out of the criticisms here, it seems to me that there is some concern that those who fly LW rides get favored treatment. Certainly the staff is not trying to favor anyone. Flying G6s and A8s against P-51s, Spitfires and P-38s is a challenge - try it, you'll see. I'm more inclined to think that Shifty has a point, which is that anyone who regularly flies a particular plane type will get pretty good at it. Isn't this unavoidable? If someone is willing to bite the bullet and get good at flying the G6, for example, should we enable Tempests on the Allied side to compensate for his increased skill?

- oldman

I guess the problem is I can't make the point in a way where it doesn't get under somebodys skin. No you should not have to enable the Tempest because Platano has become a monster in the G6. I would think thats absurd.
I would think the obvious solution would be the RPS. I also understand thats not a complete answer to the problem . I have not always been an Allied guy, I spent a lot of years as a LW in AW, and WB's plus a fair amount of time in AH in JG54, JG3, and the 27th Sentai. So I can understand the Axis point of view. The RPS has a problem in that the LW pilots are encountering so many different types at one time. That can suck too.

Still the RPS seems to be the best option. It also seems to draw the most numbers. I know this is not a popular theory but I think you could allow the blue planes , and the Japanse planes in the same RPS with the European based planes. I know some pureist will skoff at the idea , saying it's not historical. Then again how historical is the same few people killing each other between the same couple of bases week after week? Plus it would add a counter to the Axis for the Spits.

Just my opinon , and somebody can probably shoot it full of holes. Thanks for taking the time to listen OM.

storch · « **Reply #52 on:** June 19, 2006, 09:11:18 AM »

Bug, then my suggestion to you is the same as the one to Kev. think of a historic mission you would like to participate in, research the info and present it here, in the open, in this fora and let it's merits be debated by the interested parties.

the current AvA staff is possibly the best one we've had since I started playing. no more tyranical folks doing what ever they please. these folks (unlike you and I) don't seem to have a large amount of discreationary time on their hands.

Slash is a first responder
OM is an attorney
MrFork is busy raising a young family

The point is don't just gripe, think, research post for refinement and who knows.

I'm currently working on an idea and will post it soon. the key word is mission interesting specific missions.

as a hint I'm thinking of ploesti it will only run good for about a week. it will take the talents of people like filth and yourself. I'm hoping for a sunday, tuesday and thursday run. I'd like to see the bombers not say when they will attack only what time the mission will occur.

I'm thinking operation tidal wave 1 Aug. 1943

177 B-24s
230 P38s and P40s

I'm not sure what the axis upped in defense but it matters little since we probably don't have it. maybe white13 will know he's very knowledgable on this topic.

go ahead and accuse me of "swaying the staff to do my bidding"

Shifty · « **Reply #53 on:** June 19, 2006, 09:12:20 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by storch
shifty, I'm not a great player, hell I'm not even good. however the second part of your statement, the one where you say I say you guys are timid, that part is indeed correct. you guys are amazingly timid. but thats ok we shoot down all comers, or die trying

LOL what color are the trees on your planet?
Keep living the dream bro, your just about to have the whole place all to yourself.

Kev367th · « **Reply #54 on:** June 19, 2006, 09:14:33 AM »

In regard to the Pacific / Far East planeset, is there an official what stands in for what.

storch · « **Reply #55 on:** June 19, 2006, 09:21:32 AM »

Kev the seafire will be in this week IIRC. remember it's an RPS. all the planesets have "holes" in them. the most glaring is the VVS and IJ. the most complete are the german and american followed closely by the british. we may never see a complete plane set for any country it doesn't detract from making workable equally challenging setups for people to spend a few leisurely hours of entertainment in.

come up with a setup, I'm sure it will be welcomed.

shifty, any one of us can be replaced as quickly as hole in water is filled.

TheBug · « **Reply #56 on:** June 19, 2006, 09:27:08 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by storch
Bug, then my suggestion to you is the same as the one to Kev. think of a historic mission you would like to participate in, research the info and present it here, in the open, in this fora and let it's merits be debated by the interested parties.

Done that a few times. But that's not the point, I am not arguing for what planeset I would like to see. I am arguing for tactics to increase the AvA population. European RPS on a continuous basis or possibly a full planeset RPS. I am redefining the arena not tweaking setups, that has been done before. The other theaters lack the planeset at the moment to justify a RPS. Just a little thinking "out of a box"

that has become quite small. And in know way to I mean to imply the Staff themselves are not receptive to ideas, in fact I sometimes think they are too receptive.

Kev367th · « **Reply #57 on:** June 19, 2006, 09:32:13 AM »

Problem with our Seafire - It only existed with the Merlin 46 for a very short period of time. Only delivered with the Merlin 46 for 4 months before the switch to the Merlin 32, then the Merlin 46 ones were all re-engined with the Merlin 32 also.
All the pics from operation Avalanche (Sept 43) show clipped Merlin 32 Seafire L IIc's

As an added bonus - It appears from pictures that a very large number of the Merlin 32 IIc's and the Seafire LIII's were clipped. In fact yet to see a pic of Merlin 32 Seafire un-clipped.
Found out by accident while researching the sharksmouth Seafire skin.

A big difference - Yup the Merlin 32 ran at 18lbs boost max.

Something I've been asking Pyro to change, with no luck up to now.

Agreed theres always going to holes, it a question of making them as small as possible, whilst making sure the planes partly filling the big holes are representative.

storch · « **Reply #58 on:** June 19, 2006, 10:07:00 AM »

so bug, if I understand you correctly your idea is to have an arena more like MA but this one with a rolling planeset?

I hear you Kev but the 109s aren't representative of all modifications either. certainly not at their apex. the G14 in it's current iteration is still far from documented wartime performance. the 190s aren't even close to what they actually were. the Ki84 is a representation of an early model, the gripes applies equally to all planes. one could argue that the current roster best supports balanced gameplay in all arenas. don't you think an 18lb boosted spitV would be the only thing flown anywhere. the spitV we currently have aquits itself very well against tthe A6M5 as this setup has clearly demonstrated.

Kev367th · « **Reply #59 on:** June 19, 2006, 10:43:35 AM »

I think the point was with the Seafire IIc only the initial 4 month batch of 110 were delivered with the Merlin 46, up to Oct 42.
From Nov 42 they had the Merlin 32, 300 (approx) built.
Then the orignal Merlin 46 ones were then refitted with the Merlin 32.

Suppose my gripe is -
110 as Merlin 46 over a 4 month period
v
300 as Merlin 32 up to end of production, plus the original 110 refitted with Merlin 32.

Which one would you consider the representative version?

Also as a Merlin 32 it would be far more suitable (although still below the performance) as a Seafire L III (1400 built) stand in

Not as though as a Merlin 32 it was rare bird, all Seafire II's ended up as Merlin 32 L IIc's.

Irony is with 110 built it makes it the 2nd most rare plane in the game lol.

But point taken about modificaions.