Author Topic: Gun Jamming in the Bombers (Read 1752 times)

Krusty · « **Reply #15 on:** January 23, 2007, 12:12:18 AM »

Jamming wouldn't happen in bombers. Why not? Because you could clear the jam in a half a second. The only place jamming would need to be modeled would be inside fighters' wings.

I'm not for it. I think HTC's stand on it is "no", since they don't want to prevent the player from doing stuff, they want to enable the player to do stuff. Or something like that.

Debonair · « **Reply #16 on:** January 23, 2007, 12:19:31 AM »

krustipedia lolololol:aok

theNewB · « **Reply #17 on:** January 23, 2007, 12:46:01 AM »

Quote

Learn how to properly engage the bombers in AH and you won't have to worry about their guns. Just sayin'.

No doubt, atleast 85% of anyone who engages my bombers come in dead 6. I mean what do you expect when your coming at me at roughly 150MPH faster then i am and expect to survive lol gl with that. Id rather see the ability to put out engine/wing fires before i see "jamming".

B@tfinkV · « **Reply #18 on:** January 23, 2007, 04:19:03 AM »

LTARget i remember that thread now, woah good memory

skycaptn · « **Reply #19 on:** January 23, 2007, 04:08:09 PM »

i watched a MP company fire 2 belts from a .50 at a range one time with no stoppage.
The M2 is one of the best weapons in the world.
If anything needs modeled it should be the true damage of the 20mm german cannons.

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #20 on:** January 23, 2007, 04:12:54 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by skycaptn
i watched a MP company fire 2 belts from a .50 at a range one time with no stoppage.
The M2 is one of the best weapons in the world.
If anything needs modeled it should be the true damage of the 20mm german cannons.

I suppose you have official documents that show the German 20mm cannons are modeled incorrectly or is something that you're just ASSuming?

ack-ack

Krusty · « **Reply #21 on:** January 23, 2007, 06:29:03 PM »

No, it's admitted that HTC has averaged the damage of the belting. The minengeschoss were substantially more powerful than this average, becuase there was only 1 or 2 of them for every 5 rounds. They were more explosive than Hispano rounds.

That's been rehashed for 5+ years now.

The thing about bombers isn't the guns. It's the speed. If the bomber even had just 1 set of guns (no drones) it would still be a speed issue.

I have a film from a month or two ago where I ran into B17s at alt, that were cruising, YES CRUISING AT HISTORICAL SPEEDS, and my 190 was able to easily make slashing attacks as LW were reported to make. His guns were able to hit me but there was none of this utter nonsense BS about the bomber flying so fast the fighter falls behind into a 6 position just to get a shot off.

THAT's the problem with bombers: their speed is FFT 100% of the time. When used historically it doesn't matter how many drones they have, they'll get eaten without escorts. I have the film of this if anybody is interested. I started lower and slower and had to climb up to the bombers, but was still able to overtake them and set up repeated attack runs. They weren't just letting me do it, either.

Keiler · « **Reply #22 on:** January 23, 2007, 06:40:23 PM »

I am interested in seeing your movie. Bomber speed in AH is, probably due to the short range they are being flown, waaay too high. Currently I see no real reason in game to have escorts. fly up to 15 or 18k at full throttle and you're set. If anyone catches up, press alt-x, after 5 seconds x. Repeat. Threat either dead by gunners or out of fuel after 20 minutes and 35k alt.

Matt

Krusty · « **Reply #23 on:** January 23, 2007, 08:06:41 PM »

Hrm... it's 3.2MB unzipped, and 1.7MB zipped. Not sure where I can host it, let me find a place.

Krusty · « **Reply #24 on:** January 23, 2007, 08:39:15 PM »

Picture Hangar wouldn't support .AHF as an extension so I had to zip it.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1169606303_190a8_0408.zip

Some things to note:

This was one of my very first days with rudder pedals. The film included the tail end of the previous sortie where I had some Ju88s in sight and rammed them because I'm still no good with the rudders (and consequently me griping about the pedals on 200). It also had the end results of the sortie, where I go and land. I trimmed it out to between two points: where I first spot the bombers, and where the last one dies.

Other things to note: My aim is terrible because of just getting the pedals. I nearly ram the bombers 2 or 3 times. However, I *AM* able to easily overtake, outclimb WHILE overtaking, and double back at will. I'm not even in a very fast plane.

The 190A8 performs poorly above 15k. However it's flying rings around these bombers, and it earns the reputation the real one had against US bombers in WW2. Seriously, if all bombers were limited to cruise speeds in level flight, it would be a slaughterfest. 999000 would have no multikill landings. Tatertot wouldn't exist. Bombers would require active escorts every time they took off. The dynamics of the game wouldn't be so messed up that bombers outrun fighters most of the time, and so forth.

Stoney74 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 24, 2007, 12:58:08 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Keiler
I am interested in seeing your movie. Bomber speed in AH is, probably due to the short range they are being flown, waaay too high. Currently I see no real reason in game to have escorts. fly up to 15 or 18k at full throttle and you're set. If anyone catches up, press alt-x, after 5 seconds x. Repeat. Threat either dead by gunners or out of fuel after 20 minutes and 35k alt.

Matt

I'll take this any day of the week. If you're at 18K when I spot you, I'll climb to 24K before you can climb to 20K. And a fully fueled P-47N in this game can fly farther than a B-17, faster, and absolutely loves flying at 35K.

The only reason people can successfully fly bombers at 18K in this game is because all the fighters are lower than that. If people actually took the time to grab some altitude, and learned how to intercept them properly, bombers would become a deathwish, at any speed. Add some escorts, and then you've got a better chance.

Keiler · « **Reply #26 on:** January 26, 2007, 11:05:47 AM »

Thanks Krusty!

Stoney, sure if you already have some alt, and given enough patiens you will catch any bomber. A few years back in AH1 I just did what I wrote, dryflying a 190A8 in my Ki67. Accel, climb, accel, climb... after a few sectors he had to split and floated around 2 or 3 sectos back

He couldnt catch up.

Matt

[btw] That movie shows how bomber vs. Fighter fights SHOULD be. Nice flying, Krusty!

Spikes · « **Reply #27 on:** January 26, 2007, 11:42:08 AM »

plus the fact you get noobs and they fire all the ammo they got...figuring they get free ammo refills when they are running low

skycaptn · « **Reply #28 on:** January 27, 2007, 07:31:06 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I suppose you have official documents that show the German 20mm cannons are modeled incorrectly or is something that you're just ASSuming?

ack-ack

Actually ack-ack i would love to enlighten you on some of the particulars of german made cannon damage.

documented occurances of (3) 30mm cannons taking tails off b-17's
and things of this nature exsist all over this thing called the "internet"

This "internet" while not a completely perfect source of information is a great deal more useful than trying to find the wwII pilots themselves due to something called "death" and "the fact that we killed most of them"

Now if i where truely "ASSuming" as you term it, I would have failed to look up sources of my information. Well happily using this "internet" I have some here.. most of these are above an 8th grade reading level so... read slowly. Also email me if any of the words dont make sense..
http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt/mg151-aircraft-weapon-ww2.html

This above link if clicked on will take you to an example of some of this information.

NOW we are learning!! isnt this fun!!

Next time you post a literary abortion like the one you did above consider the fact that others can be equally insulting.

Have a nice day mental giant.

Stoney74 · « **Reply #29 on:** January 27, 2007, 08:25:12 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
The dynamics of the game wouldn't be so messed up that bombers outrun fighters most of the time, and so forth.

I know we've hashed this out before Krusty, but I really don't understand how you have such a hard time catching bombers. B-24's/B-17's at around 20K are only able to reach 250-270 TAS at full throttle. P-47's, P-51's, 109K4, Ta-152--all these planes are flying over 400 TAS at that altitude. That's a closure rate of over 2 miles a minute! You could chase them down with a full sector's lead over you in 13 minutes or so.

I just don't understand...