Author Topic: The United States of Europe  (Read 2159 times)

Offline Yeager

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10167
The United States of Europe
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2000, 07:13:00 PM »
Germans as soldiers!  LMAO  

ZERO outta TWO aint bad LOL

Ya VOlt!

YeAgEr  
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
The United States of Europe
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2000, 07:54:00 PM »
Great thread Dowding!

I am absolutely rolling on the floor laughing. There's some great irony in this one.

BTW, Naso...

The joke was:

Heaven is where the British are the Police, the French are the Cooks, the Germans are the Mechanics, the Swiss are the Bankers and the Italians are the Lovers.

Hell is where the British are the Cooks, The French are the Mechanics, the Germans are the Police, the Swiss are the Lovers and the Italians are the Bankers.

 
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline qts

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 782
      • None yet
The United States of Europe
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2000, 01:57:00 AM »
Our commissioners are unelected, there is massive corruption, criticism of the EU is blasphemy...

Looks pretty much the same as the old Soviet Union to me.

Tell me, Dowding, are you in business? I run my own.

Offline Thrax

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
      • http://www.pczone.co.uk
The United States of Europe
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2000, 02:52:00 AM »
Staga :

I have been to Estonia and it is one of the strangest places I've been to  

And what is with the genetics of the place?
The women have the most fantastic legs I have ever seen in a country, are slim and have the face of a blind cobblars thumb  

Something weired there...

Qts

Our commissioners are unelected, there is massive corruption, criticism of the EU is blasphemy...

And that differs from New Labour or Old Tory Quangos exactly how? Or come to think of it, certain aspects of the Royal Family.

Anyone who enters politics is no longer motivated with the 'leige Obliege' but usually greed/power/etc. Not the recipie for an honest chap..

Offline StSanta

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2496
The United States of Europe
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2000, 03:28:00 AM »
Heheh Toad:

So, if you run into a furball with 10 guys, yer alone, and you shoot down 8 before you  run outta fuel and get shot down; the ten puilots are better than you?  .

At least initially, it must be said that the Wehrmacht was far superior to the allies - take the invasion of France for example. Outgunned, outarmoured, outnumbered, and they still spanked the Brits and French.

I see the Danes aren't in. I suggest adding us as Beer Drinkers.

 


------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

bike killa

  • Guest
The United States of Europe
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2000, 04:39:00 AM »
ok the facts was:
"Germany" attacked Poland at 1st september 1939 (operation Fall Weiss), "Soviets" attacked Poland at 17th september 1939 (operation cowardly attack from behind   )
France and Great Britan was supposed to attack them at 3rd september 1939 but they did nothing....why????we were allies at that time!!!
they did nothing till  10.V>1940 when "Germany" attacked them ( i might be wrong about that date....memory fails sometimes).
after the war they didn't defended us at Jauta from that evil red monsters (   ) also dunno why!
Dowding as you said your country  gave us bases, planes and stuff like that. THANK YOU for that! our goverment (not that soviet based one in Warsaw) was in London till 1981 or even later...not sure. TY 2nd time!
USA helping us now (TY) more then Europe, but it doesn't means that EuroCountries not helping us at all. as i know we getting a lot of money from EU (TY) Scandinavian countries helping us a lot with "Baltic Sea stuff" (TY) and so on.
i'm not an economist tho, but i think we schould be together with Europe 'cuz in other case we'll be unabled to groving and "red monster" 'll get us again.
to make it clear - i have nothing against you, Brits, ect.  
<S>

Offline Dowding

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6867
      • http://www.psys07629.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/272/index.html
The United States of Europe
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2000, 06:15:00 AM »
 
Quote
Our commissioners are unelected, there is massive corruption...

You won't get any argument from me on this one - I'm disillusioned with the whole set-up Europe. But I think the basic ideas behind the EU are sound - we shouldn't run away from it, we should be IN it. How else can we be involved in the reforms?


 
Quote
...criticism of the EU is blasphemy...

I don't think this is true and perhaps you could elaborate on this point, please.

Comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is ludicrous!!! The Soviet Union institutionalised the abuse of basic human rights - the EU has recently drawn up a bill of human rights which is not liked in this country because people believe it goes too far! I don't see how you can compare one to the other.

You mention your business. Business in this country does the great majority of its trade with Europe. Not America, not the Far East, but Europe. Therefore, what happens in Europe economically has a direct effect on the economy of Great Britain. Retreating from Europe and not helping to solve the problems therein does not make any sense.

The Conservatives want us to believe that we are not European. Hell, they want us to believe we are not part of a global community. Look at their stance on asylum seekers and the blatant attempt by Hague and Co. to appeal to zenophobic sentiment. Patriotism is one thing, but a recent survey looked at how people perceive the asylum seekers in this country. In areas where there are very few seekers (relative to places like Dover), a great majority of people said that something like 20% of the population were asylum seekers! The actual figure is a few per cent. I personally beleive that Tory scare policy is partly responsible for this.

I'm not saying Blair is perfect. Far from it, in fact. But god help us if the conservatives get into power.

Bike Killa - I reckon one of the reasons we didn't send an expedition force to Poland was the need to avoid war. This was uppermost in the minds of the British after the horror of WW1. Secondly, it is a matter of logistics - it would take months to get a large force set-up, coordinated and supplied to face a well-organised and capable Wehrmacht. Even in France, we couldn't stop the Germans. I think the British high command had to decide which battles to fight and when to retreat. Towards the end of the Battle of France (for example), Air Chief Marshal Dowding refused to send more Hurricane squadrons to France when the French requested them, because the situation was so dire.



[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 11-01-2000).]
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline -lynx-

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 340
The United States of Europe
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2000, 06:56:00 AM »
Dowding:  
Quote
qts - "Soviet Socialist States of Europe"? Oh Pleeeze. You the speech writer for William Hague per chance?
Do I spot a Everyone's Darling Tony supporter?   (I remember reading somewhere that majority of UK businesses do not trade with EU/outside world - tell them the "benefits" of Euro with Euro itself loosing over 15% of it's value since it's launch, it also helps to explain benefits of a single currency to thousands of bank staff currently working providing exchange services etc - soon to join those out of work...)

Naso:  
Quote
and...
Italians as lovers !!
Your women had better start shaving their armpits then... Or was it the French I was thinking of?  

Mielta:  
Quote
Benefit the union? What happend to your strong conviction that the "blessed" countries should help those not "blessed". Or is it that only the US has those obligations?

Obviously it does not bother you that you Brits screwed Poland in 1939 and then sold it into Soviet slavery in 1945.

1. Last time I looked only 3 countries were net contributors to the EU - UK, France and Germany...

2. Brits didn't screw Poland in 1939 - Nazis did; no-one sold them "into Soviet slavery" either - they just "happened" to be located on the way to Berlin where the Soviets were going at the time to stop slaughter of millions of Poles and others in concentration camps (amongst other things, of course).

A little historical titbit for you:

Both Poland and Finland used to be parts of Russian Empire - parts with less autonomy then individual states in the US.

After the revolution in 1917 both were "let go" by Lenin, that is reverted to their independent states form.

In WW2 Poland fought on the side of the Allies, Finland joined "the other camp"  . Poland was/Finland could easily be occupied by the Soviet army after the war. Poland ended up in Soviet bloc for 45 years albeit with more autonomy this time - Finland was "let go" again... Go figure...  

------------------
lynx
13 Sqn RAF

[This message has been edited by -lynx- (edited 11-01-2000).]

Offline Thrax

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
      • http://www.pczone.co.uk
The United States of Europe
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2000, 06:58:00 AM »
Poland's been shafted by it's neighbours since time began ...  

British reluctance to assist in 1939 was due more to continuing fear of a repeat of WWI than anything else.

after the war they didn't defended us at Jauta from that evil red monsters

Actually Patton wanted to invade / attack the USSR in July 1945, and Churchill was also into the idea (documents relating to this were released to the PRO earlier this year) however Truman was against it both due to cost ($ and human lives) and the fact that the USA was at that point not anti USSR. Also, the Western powers still had Japan to contend with.

Offline Dowding

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6867
      • http://www.psys07629.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/272/index.html
The United States of Europe
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2000, 11:39:00 AM »
How could I suport Tony Blair and 'New' Labour - I'm a (moderate) socialist, damnit!!  

The Liberal Democrats advocate policies which are more left wing than Labour. I voted for them last time, probably will do so again. Or I might vote for Labour to keep the Tory scum out.  

The banks have been sacking their staff left, right and centre without the adoption of the Euro - its the way things are going I'm afraid.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline qts

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 782
      • None yet
The United States of Europe
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2000, 01:49:00 PM »
Denigrating the EU being blasphemy is in official EU documentation, as reported in the Daily Telegraph.

Bluntly, we're being taken for a ride by Europe, and the rot has got to stop.

Yes, the UK does a lot of business with other EU countries. So what? That's no reason for economic or political union.  The company at which I'm currently consulting buys a lot of computers from Dell, but it's not going to buy Dell.

Your attack on the Tories - presuming me a Tory - is ill founded and incorrect.

As for Tony Blair, I'd like to ask him if his wife being a lawyer had anything to do with lawyers being excluded from IR35. IMO TB is not to be trusted, nor IMO is Mr Hague, but TB is by far the less trustworthy, and Mr Hague has displayed far more integrity.

FWIW I disagree with Tory policy on many issues, and Mr Major was IMO a complete prat.

As for voting next time around, I'll examine the manifestos (I still have Labour's last one) and vote on the contents therein and my perception of my local candidates.

Offline mietla

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2276
The United States of Europe
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2000, 05:54:00 PM »
     
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding:
 I find your comment breath-takingly ignorant and insulting.

Man, you really get jumpy when you see (or should I say do not see) sarkasm. The first time I used sarkasm, you called me a racist, this time you call me ignorant. I have start using icons to clarify my statements.

   
Quote
My country, my relatives for god's sake, went to war against Germany when they invaded Poland. They could have appeased Hitler and sued for peace at any stage. But we did not.
[/b]

Oh yes you did. Poland GB and France had a treaty on which France and GB reneged. They declared war but never did anything and watched Poland being eaten alive by Germans and Soviets. And that was what Hitler expected. He "knew" GB and France wil stay put.

   
Quote
We gave a base of operations to Polish flyers to strike back at Hitler.
[/b]

This just begs for sarkasm, but I'll refrain. Obviously you do not mean that it was the Polish pilots who benefited from it. It's your nation who owes a debt to those pilots, not the other way around.


   
Quote
What were we supposed to do about the USSR and Poland? Declare war? Launch nuclear strikes to free the Eastern Bloc countries? My friend, that latter idea was actually considered.
[/b]

Poland was a member of the coalition in a total war. At some point GB and US simply decided, ok, we've got what we wanted, screw the rest. Poland way betrayed, pure and simple.

   
Quote
BTW Mietla - how is the slavery of Poland 'my' fault. Quit with the 'you Brits' crap.
[/b]

Why would it be your fault? It is your nation (not you) who along with others betrayed war allies, and bought peace paying for it with our freedom.

P.S. You better be nice to us Poles. This Sunday our Polish Fighting Team we'll provide a cover to your 227 Sqdn. in Africa Corps scenario.    



[This message has been edited by mietla (edited 11-01-2000).]

Offline Gh0stFT

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1736
The United States of Europe
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2000, 06:24:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Naso:
I hope in a future USE, every population will be in correct place,

Germans as soldiers,
Frenchs as dyplomatics,
English as politics,
Spanish as economics,
and...
Italians as lovers !!
 

ROFL !!! Naso now this is Fun!  

Gh0stFT

The statement below is true.
The statement above is false.

Drummer

  • Guest
The United States of Europe
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2000, 06:33:00 PM »
Dowding:
"My country, my relatives for god's sake, went to war against Germany when they invaded Poland."

Declaring war and going to war are two different things don't you think? Hitler knew it very well that France and Britain won't do ANYTHING to help their ally. That's why he attacked Poland, risking that France will move their tulips from Maginot Line and attack Germany from the west, he knew it will never happen.

"We gave a base of operations to Polish flyers to strike back at Hitler."

In case you didn't know, Polish government had to pay every single penny for operating costs of Polish Army in Britain, including 68 million pounds sterling for operating costs and equipment of Polish Air Force. You "gave us", huh?
 
Drummer

P.S. Sorry for my bad English I'm still working on it  

Offline mietla

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2276
The United States of Europe
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2000, 11:46:00 PM »
Drummer,

Your English is just fine. In fact, your English is better than some of the native English speakers present.

...

But than again, it is not my native language either, so what do I know?