A quick survey on Patriotism

[Neubob]

How many people here think that patriotism is defined by the unrelenting support of a government, its symbols and its actions, during a time of war, or a time of peace, with the understanding that said government can be replaced come the election period?

How many people, by contrast, think that a true patriot is the kind best exhibited by the American Federalist--a person who believes that a corrupt and fundamentally inhumane government should be torn down by whatever means necesary(physical or political) to make room for something better, and that anyone standing by the corruption simply because it is who is in power, is the true traitor?

I'm very curious, because I see these two ideologies clashing here all the time, and while a strict adherence to either one usually ends in catastrophe, the more heated out debates get, the closer it seems people tend to edge to either one side or the other.

[BlueJ1]

I think everyone has their own different definition of patriotism.

[Sandman]

I don't think I like either of the definitions all that much.

[cpxxx]

I think the first definition is closer to nationalism.  Unrelenting support of a government would give it a licence to do whatever it liked. Remember the government is not the country, it merely exists to serve people of the country it governs.  An obvious example is of course Nazi Germany. Many Germans supported the war to the bitter end even it was evident for a long time that it would only result in the destruction of everything they believed in.

A patriot on the other hand wants what he believes to be the best for the people of his country. If that means being unpopular or defying the government then so be it.

[Dos Equis]

Originally posted by Neubob
How many people here think that patriotism is defined by the unrelenting support of a government, its symbols and its actions, during a time of war, or a time of peace, with the understanding that said government can be replaced come the election period?

 

The problem is that the people who are #1, don't actually believe that they are #1. They think they are free thinkers. They listen to the radio personalities and tv pundits who are taking marching orders, and they don't see the money trail. The issues are re-framed in a way that offends their sensibilities by the pundits, and so they think they agree with the government even when they probably don't.

The people who are #2 seem closer to anarchists. Often they mask the fact they haven't successfully competed in the marketplace of ideas with some cocked up theory or conspiracy of why the playing field wasn't level.

[Yeager]

a patriot is a person blinded by dogma.

[Nilsen]

Im a patriot.

Not to any given government, but to my family, the flag, our constitution and our king.

[Shamus]

Originally posted by Nilsen
Im a patriot.

Not to any given government, but to my family, the flag, our constitution and our king.

We have more and more like that here Nilsen

shamus

[lasersailor184]

I'm a patriot to the US constitution.  Everything else is expendable.

[dmf]

I don't know if I'm considered a patriiot or not, I believe in the constitution. I believe that we are one people under a god or not. I believe we should be indivisible. I believe in freedom. I believe it isn't free. I honor our veterans, I stand up and put my hand over my heart for the National Anthum. I get mad when people burn the flag saying bad things about this country. I believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman.

[StarOfAfrica2]

When does a Patriot stand by a corrupt system, hoping still to change it from within, and when does said Patroit say "enough is enough" and revolt?

I think this has always said it right.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Neubob

How many people, by contrast, think that a true patriot is the kind best exhibited by the American Federalist--a person who believes that a corrupt and fundamentally inhumane government should be torn down by whatever means necesary(physical or political) to make room for something better, and that anyone standing by the corruption simply because it is who is in power, is the true traitor?

 

I'm with yah till the last line.

The last revolution was lead by wealthy men.. men who pledged their lives, fortunes and sacred honor. So to speak. The people that did the majority of the dying for that ideal were not day traders with kids and a mortgage. The average joe today has a vested interest in this screwed up system and ain't about to get all jiggy and shoot up the supreme court over a few invasions of digital privacy...

Of course, should the majority become suddenly destitute, a starving army of former day traders could make a diffrence.

[Mini D]

Patriotism is not born from discussion.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Shamus
We have more and more like that here Nilsen

shamus

LOfluff'nL!

[dmf]

Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
When does a Patriot stand by a corrupt system, hoping still to change it from within, and when does said Patroit say "enough is enough" and revolt?

I think this has always said it right.

Are you saying that maybe its time to start over?