Author Topic: Too hot ...suffuring the over heat blues  (Read 1028 times)

Offline 38ruk

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Too hot ...suffuring the over heat blues
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2006, 10:04:01 PM »
Roo the 3700+ is the 2500 barton of the 64's . Over at overclock.net , ive seen only one 4000+ reach 3ghz , and it was a suicide screen shot . The general concensus is if you want to go cheaper and overclock , the 3700 is the way to go . My neighbor has a stock fx-57 , he cant produce any of the numbers i do @3ghz . Even when im at 2.8ghz (stock fx-57 speeds ) mine still comes out on top due to the fact my memory needs to be overclocked to get to 2.8. He has a zalman water kit and cant get stable over 2915 even with an unlocked multi . The 3700 has the same core (sandeigo)  as the fx-57 , their basically the same chip , the highest 3700 clock ive seen is 3.4ghz on water, and that was awhile ago .

Offline Roscoroo

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Too hot ...suffuring the over heat blues
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2006, 10:52:46 PM »
yea thats kinda my 2 choices i ve been looking at  a 3700 or the 4000 san

i also have to stay in the Roo budget ..(more like the Mrs Roo buget actually)

as for extreame ocing ... my homemade all aluminum water block cools off better then the copper blocks .. im gonna try to get a few more coppers to test with .

I think the copper blocks hold to much heat after they get warm vs the all aluminum .

i played with the mrs roo's pc and it hit 44c when i got to 2.4 with her barton.
I cheated and used FF XI to stress it ... scored a quick 4000H with a 9550 256 card at its under clocked stock settings  200mhz gpu 133 ram speed .

 mine scores in the 5000 range w/9600pro  . its to bad only one of my 512 sticks worked in her pc .. the other one went bad during the swap .. It had me boggled for 2 days and in the dog house to boot....

my 1st block i made (sorry pic sucks and the rooKids are pestering me over "Booms")
Roscoroo ,
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Offline Brenjen

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Too hot ...suffuring the over heat blues
« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2006, 11:37:06 AM »
I have the 4000+ sandie in my game rig with a 10% overclock....no video card in it right now to give you the temps & cpu-z readings...but it has been just fine on stock HSF since march. I tried a copper TT HSF & AS-5 & my temps were higher by several degrees C than the stock aluminum one with stock T.I.M., so I agree with Roo about that.

Offline Roscoroo

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Too hot ...suffuring the over heat blues
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2006, 02:42:33 AM »
ill show ya what ive got to beat (yea Rukie here it is again) 10% oc lol .. nah try pushing for near 100 % oc  i got to about 75% est  then crashied out after that .

i spent 3 weeks creeping up on this and had the radiator and resevoir setting in a freezer just to keep it at -5c ... it was too fast for win 98sp 1.5 and had to reset in xp .. talk about a screamer .. it 03marked thru the roof too  ...  kinda fun but cost me the ram about a week later .. i turned it back down to 2.5 ghz  , it still lives ...  



So just think what i could do with the right 64 bit cpu .. id hug it and wuv it ,,, and clock it and shock it ,,, and add lots of ice to the freezer ... along with uping its water to 3 gals again and give it lotsa shine ... (oops you guys didnt see that) i mean alchohal ...   :D   mad sciencetist flashback here .. muhahahahaa

ps Dont try this unless you "have the parts to lose" ... one miss step while doing this and its POP SnaPPLe .... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzit ttttttt  Crack ...    powersupplys just love to go zzzztcrack on me .
Roscoroo ,
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Offline Brenjen

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Too hot ...suffuring the over heat blues
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2006, 10:05:10 AM »
Well, my 10% OC is on stock HSF...air, not liquid cooled radiators stuck in an ice chest full of dry ice while religious rights are performed by multiple priests, shammans, swamp princesses, druids & kennedy worshipers to keep it from dying. :D

 Seriously though 3.6 is a very respectable O.C.! I wish I had your knowledge, I just started playing with O.C.'s this year. My 10% O.C. is an auto-overclock, but I did get my 4000+ sandie up to 3.0ghz; all I could do with it was look at the cpu-z screen before it went black screen on me. So, I figure if I knew what I was doing with the memory settings I could get at least 2.9 out of it stable. Esspecially if I went liquid cooled or a peltier! :O  just kidding; allthough I am considering a liquid cooled system, been thinking of building my own for a couple months now; something one of a kind;)

Offline Roscoroo

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Too hot ...suffuring the over heat blues
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2006, 10:35:32 AM »
actuall 2.8 on a 4000 looks like a good oc area for that cpu , as long as the temps are managable . thats about the general ocing ive seen in the oc forums .

ive thought about building a Freon cooled setup .. but the condensation is pritty much unbarable in my area . oil bath sounds good too , but well its so messy .

your fishtank may work on a standard oc .. but for pushing the 2.8 area  id think its temp is to high as for it will carrie the tanks temp to the cpu .

hmmm Kennedy worshipers eh ... wonder if thats better then using Tim Currie worshipers :D
Roscoroo ,
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Offline Brenjen

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« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2006, 11:33:51 AM »
In my best Homer J. Simpson voice -->Tim Currie worshipers (shudders)

 Remember, my fish tank is 8 feet long & 2 feet deep & 2 feet wide, unless I left the P/C on for days I don't think it would heat it up too much. I have a heater in the tank now...400 watts if I remember correctly & it has trouble  getting the tank up to 79F unless the house gets up to that temp. too (my A/C fights it Is my only guess) during the winter it does ok because I usually have my heat set pretty high.

 But really that is only one of my ideas, I like submersible pumps & A/C powered over the weaker lower pressure D/C pumps...like in my 360 gallon aquarium, I have four pumps each have a ten foot head; the eheim I saw listed like in eVGA's black pearl kit & others, only has a four foot head. I need a higher pressure to get creative unless there is a D/C pump out there I have yet to run across ( I have never liquid cooled a P/C ) but I have dealt with many other applications of liquid cooling & many aquariums & fish ponds. Seeing as how I'm sniffing around O.C.'ing my P/C & I like to tinker, it just makes sense to invent my own liquid cooling solution.

 I have thought about A/C pumped directly into my P/C but then you have the condensation problem & Arkansas has nearly 100% humidity all the time ( high 90% is quite common ) As it stands now I am on the cusp of making a great one of a kind machine or burning one up.;)

Offline capt. apathy

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Too hot ...suffuring the over heat blues
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2006, 02:32:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Brenjen


 I have thought about A/C pumped directly into my P/C but then you have the condensation problem & Arkansas has nearly 100% humidity all the time ( high 90% is quite common ) As it stands now I am on the cusp of making a great one of a kind machine or burning one up.;)


you will not get a condensation problem.

Air coming out of an ac unit carries less moisture than the regular room air.

Condensation only occurs when warm wet air is cooled to a point where it can't hold all of its water any more.  That has already happened in the ac unit.  When the air goes from the ac to the computer it is actually rising in temp, lowering the relative humidity of the air and lowering the chance of condensation.

You’d actually be more likely to get condensation on the lines running to your heat-sink on a water cooled system than with pumping air, that has already been cooled, into the case.

I've been running mine that way for 3 or 4 years and I have no condensation problems, much less dust, and none of those dirtclod buildups from moister and dust collecting in the same spot.

Offline Brenjen

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Too hot ...suffuring the over heat blues
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2006, 06:49:01 PM »
Well, I can't argue the specifics as I am not in heat & air or refrigeration by trade, but I would think you being in portland vs. my being in the south and having high humidity on a daily basis would have an adverse effect, but eh, like I said I'm no whiz when it comes to such matters. I know the air conditioner vents in my house drip water on occasion due to the humidity & condensation, and before we installed double paned windows....wow, there would be puddles on the window sills.

Offline capt. apathy

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Too hot ...suffuring the over heat blues
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2006, 09:37:17 PM »
I've lived in Missouri so I know the kind of humidity you're talking about and the higher humidity in your area makes this an even better option for you

And yes you do get condensation at the AC unit (since the air is getting cooler in the AC you get condensation) but think about that for a minute.

The idea is to get the air in your case cool.  You have a certain amount of moisture in your air (and yes you have much more in your air than I have here).  If you were to just cool you case directly (either with water cooled or even a similar set up using actual refrigerant), and you were actually able to cool the inside of your case to below room temperature, that moisture would be forced out of the air and you'd get condensation.

But as you mentioned, the AC in your house drips water.  That water doesn't just appear, the air is being cooled to a temp where it can't hold as much water and the water is being forced from the air.  

Say the room your PC is in is 75-85deg with 90% relative humidity, and you hook it up so the air from your AC is ducted to your cases intake fan.

So as the air leaves the AC unit it is at 100% humidity for the temp it is at (but as far as actual amount of water in the air it is much less than in the same amount of room air, because air at that temp simply can't hold as much water).

  But then it goes through the duct to your PC, picking up some heat from the rooms’ temp along the way.  By the time it gets to your case it is much lower than 100%, and then in you case every single part (and any air in your case) is much hotter than this air so it starts to get warm.  Hotter air can hold much more water, so the relative humidity drops even further.


Another example to consider is a de-humidifier.  I'm not sure if you're familiar with how they work so I'll give you an over-view.   Basically it's an AC unit that has the air path re-routed.  

 Your normal AC unit has 2 air paths, one takes air in from your room, passes it over the evaporator, sucking the heat out of the air, and collecting water as condensation.

 The other is outside; it takes in outside air, passes it over the condenser the heat is driven from the coolant and picked up by the air, which is vented outside.

With a de-humidifier the compressor/condenser parts are the same but it simply takes air from the room, runs it through the evaporator, where it cools it, drives out the moisture (which is ran to a drain or collection pan), then instead of going back to the room it is passed to the condenser where it picks back up the heat and returns to the room at about the same temp it was taken in at but with most of the moisture removed.

By passing air through an AC and then directly into the heat of your case you are in essence making a de-humidifier.  Not only will it not give you condensation problems or even increase the humidity in your case at all, it will have just the opposite effect of getting rid of any moisture problems you already have from your increased humidity (like when the increased humidity causes the dust to clump and pack itself in to places)


One more thing to consider before I get off this post that went on way longer than I intended.

Think about how dry your house get when you take cold air from outside and heat it up to 72-75 deg in the wintertime.  

Cooling air causes increased relative humidity, and condensation.  Cooling air and then heating it back up again greatly reduces relative humidity and makes condensation (outside of the actual ac unit) virtually impossible.

If the parts in your case are cold enough to pull condensation out of air directly from an AC unit than you have a case that is running well below 50 deg F and you don't really need to worry about cooling anything.

Offline 38ruk

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Too hot ...suffuring the over heat blues
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2006, 02:29:24 AM »
Heeh Roo that 3.6 ghz run is one for the books.  I backed my sandie down to 2915 mhz for summer , no sense beating the snot out of it for 3ghz for no reason .   38

Offline Roscoroo

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« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2006, 03:19:51 AM »
sniffs .. crys you know they pulled my med waiver for  fuel .... so im stuck playing with pc's ...   most of the squad knows ... i couldnt even back up my last win ahra .. oh well so its gonna be oc hell this fall .. i want the bloody record again but in 64 bit ... (insert evil laff here )

pm me Rukie i 'll explain it if ya wanna know my friend. frellin 2 weeks from spokane .. aurgh ... sorry guys temp thing here .. Ruk understands.
Dems , naps, and whisky thing. (runs off to chase mrs Roo .. and purrs at least we didnnnt spend 10k this year )
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Offline Brenjen

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Too hot ...suffuring the over heat blues
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2006, 12:14:40 PM »
Hey Capt. Apathy thanks for the in-depth heating & air lesson! That was enlightening, too bad I'm so dense. All I remember about refrigeration is something a navy buddy of mine who was in refrigeration told me, in one of his classes they told the class, "there is no cold, only the absence of heat" & that has stuck with me over the years.

 I do put the tea-pot on during the winter for two reasons, as a humidifier & I like hot mint tea in the winter lol.

 I don't really understand the principles you laid out & I'm not going to pretend I do, but some of it made sense & it puts the option of ducting A/C air into my case.

 So - Thanks again! :aok

Offline Hajo

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Too hot ...suffuring the over heat blues
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2006, 01:37:23 PM »
OC'ing athlon64 4000+ Clawhammer 2520mhz.  5% OC.

Doing well  temps stay below 50C.  Wondering if I can find an Aluminum Waterblock for this Thermaltake Big Water.
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