Author Topic: What campain issues effect you the most  (Read 2468 times)

Offline F4UDOA

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What campain issues effect you the most
« on: November 03, 2000, 10:15:00 AM »
Gents,

I have heard mostly Republican opinions on this board about what a great thing it would be to have a Republican president this term. But I cannot, to save my life think of one campain issue between the two parties that would help me if Bush were elected. So I will break down the issues as I know them and give my reasons for voting for Gore.
STICK TO THE ISSUES. If you have and additional issue list it next in order. But it has to be a campain issue.

1. Medicare Reform
I have only heard Gore give actual numbers on the percentgae of people covered by his plan. Bushes plan, according to Bush, forces some seniors to go get there own insurance with no cost regulation on the insurance companies. I don't like that and I know the Republicans are backed by the insurance companies and the Democrats are backed by the Doctors. My wife is a Physical therapist so I hear daily horror stories about HMO's deneying care to people who need it. Both Doctors and HMO's can be greedy, but a greedy HMO can kill you. To make it simple for everyone Republicans=insurance companies Democrats=Doctors. I Pick-Democrats

2.Social Security reform
Gore wants to lock it up and Bush wants to let people keep some of the money to invest themselves.

Bushes plan may put a couple of extra dollars in my pocket now but the idea of people who cannot currently save money being able to save it with an extra 10 dollars a week in their paychecks is unrealistic. The loss of this money now is an inconvienance. The loss of that money when people are 70 years old and unemployable is devastating. I see allot of destitute people in the future with this idea. Remember, this is social "Security", not a 401K. The people with 401K's and IRA's won't need social security. The people who don't have those benifits or forehthought will need it badly. Pick Democrats

3. Abortion
Like it or not Gore is Pro-choice. Bush has always been against abortion however in this campain he has flopped like a fish. I really have no idea what his real stance is. Pro-life can't be happy because he won't say he's against it. In fact I have heard him say he is only against late term abortions.
I give gore the nod because at least he tells you where he stands. Pick Democrats

4. Gun control
Bush again will not give any specifics on what he wants or doesn't want for gun control. Howver he has said that he is in favor of a 24 hour waiting period at gun shows. I like that. Gore is the most friendly democrat toward guns owners that I know of. However he is in favor of forcing gun owners to get a license. Like a drivers license. I luv this idea. It puts a little responabilty with the people who claim to be responable. He doesn't want to restrict any sportsman, hunters or farmers. The people who really need their guns. He is also in favor of manditory child safety locks. A real no brainer. Pick Democrats

5. Military spending
I have heard this in the debates from both sides. Gore's plan spends three times more money on the military than Bushes. I am in favor of spending that money. pick democrats

6.Economy
During the late Reagan years and the Bush years the American economy was in the worst recession since the great depression. Clinton steps in and the economy grows at it's greatest rate ever. I do not believe in coincidence and I have a long memory. I just watched a clip of George Bush senoir in 1992 saying how bad the economy would be if the democrats get in office in 1992. He was wrong by the widest margin in history. The sign of a good Republican is someone who makes money in a bad economy. I can't afford another Bush economy. Pick Democrats

7. Bringing people together and uniting both parties.
I have no idea what this means but Bush has been saying it for the entire campain. It is another promise that has no accountability attatched to it. It means nothing and comes on the heels of the greatest partisan witch hunt of all time. Kenneth star.
Pick Democrats, just because Bush brought it up.

8. Foriegn Policy
I haven't heard either canidate say anything regarding this that makes me very happy. However Bush has said enough to make me think that he is a bit of an Isolationest. I do not like that. The world is much to small for that kind of thinking. Pick Democrats, but not a strong pick.

9. Civil rights
Fundamentally I am a democrat. No reason to babble. pick Democrat

10. Envirement
Duh. Pick Democrat
BTW, the Texas Polution is the worst in the country.

11. Education
Very important. Bush is in favor of school vouchers. Taking tax money from the public schools and giving it to religious orinizations in the hope that they will do something to educate with it. In the past the Republican party has cut Univercity funding in the Reagan and Bush era.

Gore is not in favor of vouchers and would give a 10,000 dollar tax deduction to families sending a child to colledge.

I am so adversely opposed to giving religious orginizations tax dollars I would risk going to jail to not pay this tax. It is against the constitution and support some of the most corrupt, unregulated, tax free and wealthest orginizations in this country or the world. We might as well go back to the dark ages if we depend on these groups for help. Pick very strongly democrat.
Also the Texas education sytem is the worst in the country.

That is my list. Add to it if you wish but stick to the format. One topic at a time.

Later
F4UDOA

Offline Dnil

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What campain issues effect you the most
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2000, 10:47:00 AM »
quick question, why do you think the government owes you or anybody else anything?  What happened to personal responsiblity.  If I dont save then its my own freaking fault I am broke when I am old.  

I want the government out of my life as much as possibile.  I sure as hell dont wanna pay for Bill gates prescription drugs, which we would do under Gores plan.    

We may not agree but at least your voting, I think we can agree that is a good thing.

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Offline Rooster

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What campain issues effect you the most
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2000, 10:48:00 AM »
can you say "Yellow Dog Democrat?"

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2000, 10:49:00 AM »
F4UDOA

Heard CNN is looking for another talking head. I think you'd qualify.

Eagler

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Offline mrfish

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« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2000, 10:54:00 AM »
the ecomony was bad during bush's term but -

- who was controlling congress then?

- who has controlled congress during Clinton's term?

hmmmm? - are you going to attribute the economic growth to the president alone? it seems to me that  business people grew this country not clinton - what did he do that really changed anything? there was no specific policy or act that changed things from him - he was just in office at the time - also, where was the internet in the 80's? most of the big new jobs are from the technology sector - the rest is pretty flat - I pay about a 1/4 of what i make in regular taxes and over 45% on bonuses and commissions - 45%! - so i can help pay for a bunch of people to get together and sing kumbaya and say a bunch of feel-goody things about each other? just let me keep my money thats the only campaign issue i care about

Offline Ripsnort

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What campain issues effect you the most
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2000, 11:10:00 AM »
I want more local control government and less big gov'tment.  That means a Republican vote.

Offline Gunthr

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What campain issues effect you the most
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2000, 11:20:00 AM »
Everybody is entitled to their vote, F4U. However, after reading your positions on the issues, I strongly recommend that you vote for Ralph Nader.

<S>
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What campain issues effect you the most
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2000, 04:42:00 PM »
"I can't afford another Bush economy. Pick Democrats"

This says it all for me .

 I do remember what it's like not having full employment at work . It wasn't pretty . Better now , much better  

Offline Fatty

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What campain issues effect you the most
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2000, 04:58:00 PM »
I'm voting mostly on education.  To me vouchers are a no brainer.  You can talk about school accountability all you want, but there is no greater accountability factor than giving parents the ability to choose another school if the ones their kids are stuck in is not working.

There is a real problem in disparity among schools, we've basically moved from racial segregation in schools to economic segregation.  That the civil rights touting democrats would balk so strongly at the idea of giving poorer children the opportunity to attend their private schools is enlightening to say the least.  To me this is the single strongest option available to keep economic mobility within our society.

Religion is another matter entirely, and admittedly clouds the issue, but it is a fact that religous sponsored schools are some of the best in the country.  Do we deny poor children the ability to attend these schools based on religion alone?

Given that all ivy league schools have a very strong religous history, are you prepared to cut federal assistance to attend those as well?  Personally I am an athiest, but if/when I have kids I'm going to send them whereever they will get the best education, I could care less what religous affiliation it has.

Voting Bush.

-Fatty

Offline Wotan

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What campain issues effect you the most
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2000, 05:26:00 PM »
Run Pat Run,,,,

Offline Yeager

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What campain issues effect you the most
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2000, 06:23:00 PM »
One IMPORTANT thing to remember F4UDOA.

Both Bush and Gore have plans.  Thats all they are.  Plans... It takes the approval of congress (both houses) to pass anything either men put fourth.  In reality, the President has to work WITH congress to hammer out compromises.  Its a wonderful thing really.

Clinton has had a terrible relationship with congress.  Thats the truth.  Gore will likely (by his rhetoric) continue the adversarial relationship with congress.  I believe Bush will work WITH congress to get good legislation passed for the good of the people.

Another point:  I have discovered that if a man has the balls to speak out for my right to own firearms, most everything else he thinks falls pretty much into my line of thinking regarding military, social and fiscal policies.  2nd Amendment, thats my litmus test.

Yeager
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Offline Toad

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What campain issues effect you the most
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2000, 06:40:00 PM »
1. Medicare Reform

From Bush's Website:

Governor Bush will reform Medicare by providing seniors with a prescription drug benefit as well as the ability to choose their own modern, comprehensive health plan.  Governor Bush’s plan will cover all prescription drug expenses for low-income seniors, the full cost of Medicare premiums for low-income seniors, at least part of the premium cost for all seniors, and the cost of catastrophic Medicare costs for all seniors.

From Gore's Website:

Expanding Access to Health Care Coverage

Expand eligibility under the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP...Expand health care coverage to working families by extending CHIP to parents...Provide affordable health care options for Americans ages 55 to 65 with a 25 percent tax credit to buy into Medicare....Make health insurance more affordable for small businesses by offering a 25 percent tax credit for the premium costs of each employee.
 
Gore would strengthen Medicare through price competition among managed care plans and cost savings for competitive pricing.

Improving Medicare with a Prescription Drug Benefit: As President, Al Gore will expand Medicare to help seniors and people with disabilities afford prescription drugs.

Pretty much the same rhetoric except for one thing. Bush mentions CHOICE. Gore just makes old programs bigger.

Bush for me, I like choice.



2.Social Security reform
Bush:

Governor Bush believes Social Security is a defining American promise that must be kept.  He will not change benefits in any way for current retirees or those near retirement.  But to save Social Security for the next generation, he will lead a bipartisan effort to reform it by giving individuals the option of voluntarily investing a portion of their Social Security payroll taxes in personal retirement accounts.  These accounts will earn higher rates of return and generate wealth that can be owned and passed on from parents to their children.

Gore:

Saving Social Security

Devote all Social Security Surpluses to Social Security and debt reduction.

Oppose efforts to raise the retirement age or reduce benefits by privatizing the system.

Improving fairness for Widows, Widowers and Mothers by giving parents credit toward Social Security for up to five years spent raising children -

Retirement Savings Plus Accounts:
Voluntary contributions, with a generous match that offers the greatest rewards for saving to lower-income Americans.

Securing Pensions for Working Americans: to expand pension portability, simplify the pension process for small businesses and protect employee pension funds.

There is no "social security surplus". They've ALL been playing numbers games with Social Security money since the '50's at least. No one is talking about raising the retirement age, privatizing or reducing benefits either. Everyone in the Congress is afraid to even mention SS, let alone actually change it.

Extra credit for non-workers who raised children? Who should pay for that? The folks that worked AND raised children? THAT doesn't seem too fair. Retirement Savings accounts with a GENEROUS MATCH? Guess we'll use tax money to make that Generous Match..so this is another transfer of wealth program...Democrats are famous for this.

"A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul."

-George Bernard Shaw  

At least the portable pension has merit.

Still, Bush is going to leave things as they are for the Seniors (fair enough..this is even better than the deal they ORIGINALLY signed into and give the young guys a chance to put a small bit of THEIR OWN cash away for themselves in a "self-directed" savings mode?

"I believe that every individual is naturally entitled to do as he pleases with himself and the fruits of his labor, so far as it in no way interferes with any other men’s rights."

-Abraham Lincoln  


Did I mention Choice? Bush for me again.


3. Abortion
Bush:

Life Issues: Pro life with exceptions for rape, incest and life of the mother

Set the goal that all children should be welcomed in life and protected by law

Supports parental notification, banning use of taxpayer funds for abortion, and banning partial birth abortion

Supports efforts to increase adoptions

Opposes doctor assisted suicide, believes the role of a doctor is to relieve pain and suffering, not to end life

Make permanent the $5,000 adoption tax credit
 
Gore:

Protecting Women's Right to Choose: Al Gore believes that there is no challenge more fundamental than protecting women's reproductive health. Al Gore will fight to guarantee women the right to choose and make abortion safe, legal, and rare while making significant investments in family planning and education. Freedom of choice also means freedom from fear in making that choice, and we must not allow a woman's right to choose to be taken away by those who resort to violence.

Serious Question: Can anyone tell me where in the US a woman does NOT currently have the right to "choose" and where it is that abortion is NOT "safe, legal". AS far as I can tell, any woman can get an abortion anywhere in  any of several safe, legal clinics.

So what is the big deal here? Ever since Roe V Wade abortion has been legal.

I suspect the REAL argument is over whether the government is going to provide free abortion using tax dollars of all citizens.

Gore is making a big deal out of an issue that has long been decided. So it's no issue.

Highly unlikely ANYONE can get Roe overturned, so non-issue there. Bush less likely to support government funded "personal choice" (Hey, it's YOUR choice...you pay for it!) I'll go Bush.
[/b]

4. Gun control

Bush: Governor Bush believes the best gun control measure is to vigorously prosecute those who illegally sell guns, those who illegally carry guns, and those who illegally commit crimes with guns. Governor Bush’s priority as President will be to keep guns away from criminals and juveniles.  He will make federal gun prosecutions a top priority, reversing the 46% decline in federal gun prosecutions under the Clinton-Gore Administration.  In addition, he will protect law-abiding citizens’ constitutional Second Amendment rights while at the same time enacting reasonable, common-sense restrictions on the unsafe use of firearms.
 
Gore believes we must:

Increase penalties for gun-related crimes.

Hire new federal, state, and local gun prosecutors to get gun criminals off the street and put them behind bars.

Require gun manufacturers and federally-licensed sellers to report gun sales to a state authority.

Oppose weakening restrictions on concealed weapons and ban concealed weapons from places of worship.

GETTING GUNS OUT OF THE HANDS OF CRIMINALS

Require every buyer of a handgun to obtain a state-issued photo license, after passing a background check and safety test.

Ban so-called "junk guns" and assault weapons.

Limit handgun purchases to one-a-month and require a three-day waiting period for handgun purchases.

Fight to close the Gun Show Loophole that exempts unlicensed gun dealers at shows from the Brady Law, allowing them to sell guns without a background check.

Oppose special legal protections for gun manufacturers.

PROTECTING CHILDREN FROM GUNS

Require child-safety locks for all new handguns.

Raise the minimum age to possess a handgun from 18 to 21.

Prohibit juveniles from possessing assault rifles and large capacity ammunition clips.

Support Gun-Free Schools, requiring states to adopt a policy of mandatory 1-year expulsion for any student who brings a gun to school.

Extend the Brady Law to violent juveniles, barring youth convicted of serious violent crimes in juvenile court from owning firearms as adults.

I like the FAR GREATER emphasis Bush puts on punishing those criminals who use guns for violent crime. Gore has way to much interest in restricting (Don't restrict the good guys! Prosecute the bad guys!)the law abiding citizens who are not the problem.

Bush again, what a suprise.


5. Military spending

Bush:

Restore the morale of our armed forces.  
Insist that deployments have well-defined objectives. Focus on defending the American homeland. Prepare the military for the challenges of the information age. Begin to build the military of the future.

GORE:

Rewarding the Men and Women in Uniform with Competitive Pay.
Reforming the Military Housing System.
Improving Family Services.
Investing in Health Care.
Fulfilling the Promise to Take Care of Retirees. Getting Our Soldiers Off Food Stamps Now. Increasing the Investment in Advanced Hardware. Supporting a Healthy Industrial and Technology Base.National Missile Defense. America must maintain its nuclear strength, with adequate offensive forces to ensure deterrence and to be ready to participate in peacekeeping, humanitarian, and other efforts.

Bush wants to start bringing US troops home from overseas. Gore doesn't, leans toward more involvement in forein problems. The rest of it is political boilerplate. Let me see...yup, Bush.

6.Economy

Bush:
Governor Bush believes that roughly one-quarter of the surplus should be returned to the people who earned it through broad tax cuts – otherwise, Washington will spend it.  His plan will promote economic growth and increase access to the middle class by cutting high marginal rates.  It will also double the child credit, eliminate the death tax, reduce the marriage penalty, and expand Education Savings Accounts and charitable deductions. The largest percentage cuts will go to the lowest income earners.  As a result, 6 million families will no longer pay federal income tax.

Gore:

Help Working Families Care for Children and Aging Parents

Making child care more affordable for working families by making the Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit (CDCTC) refundable for the first time.

Providing tax relief for stay-at-home-parents: and expand family leave for those working outside the home.

Helping parents pay for after-school care through a new refundable After-School Tax Credit (ASTC) for children age 16 and under.

Supporting families with long-term care needs through a $3,000 tax credit.

Helping families pay for college with the College Opportunity Tax Cut that allows families to take a tax credit or tax deduction for tuition.Reward Work and Family

Expanding the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).

Marriage penalty tax relief by raising the standard deduction, so that a married couple would get the same standard deduction as if they remained single.

Simplifying estate tax exemptions and raising the tax exemption for small businesses and family farms.

Lets' see.

Bush Plan: Tax Cut...those who paid the most in get the most back, those that paid the least in get the least back. Seems fair.

Gore Plan: Tax Cut and Credits. (Huge Democratic Transfer of Wealth Plan) Those that paid the most in get NOTHING back...maybe 25% of the taxpayers in this category. Those that paid the least in get some back plus some bonus matches paid by those who got NOTHING BACK. Those that paid NOTHING in get money back and bonus matches all paid for by those who got NOTHING BACK.

If there's going to be some redistribution of my paycheck, I'd like to redistribute it to the old folks in my family that have NOTHING. I'd like to do the redistributing myself.

Bush again.
[/b]

7. Bringing people together and uniting both parties.

This isn't a campaign issue, it's a delusion. Washington is Washington and Politics is Politics. The people and the National interest come after lining your own pocket. No one can change it either.


Ran out of time on the rest of it. I suggest you folks that are undecided make a visit to the Bush and Gore websites. There is a great deal more information on specific issues than I clipped for this post.

While most of it is probably political fertilizer, it does lay out the position more clearly than the news media does.

It's "in their own words" so to speak, rather than distilled through the "talking heads" of the media.

TTFN

[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 11-03-2000).]
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Udie

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What campain issues effect you the most
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2000, 06:40:00 PM »
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I voted 2 weeks ago  

go Bush go!

udie

Offline Karnak

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What campain issues effect you the most
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2000, 06:57:00 PM »
Go, Gore, go!!!

F4UDOA,
Nice write up.

Udie,
You're from Texas and I'm from California.  Like it matters who you and I vote for in the Presidential race.   Local issues yes, but we all know Texas is a gimme to Bush and California is a gimme to Gore.

Sisu
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[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 11-03-2000).]
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Offline StSanta

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What campain issues effect you the most
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2000, 07:11:00 PM »
Well, about the vouchers and religious schools:

You run into a fundamental problem; the separation of church from state. if state money goes to support religions through various way, you have a hole.

If parents want to indoctrinate their children, lettum pay for it themselves  .



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