How is that supposed to work?

[miko2d]

 ...the California Air Resources Board had delighted greens and outraged car manufacturers by unanimously upholding its controversial “zero-emissions” mandate, which requires 10% of the new cars sold in the state by big manufacturers to meet the state’s definition of zero emissions by 2004...

 I thought that what is sold is determined by  the consumers buying the merchandize. How can you oblige someone to sell something if no one wants to buy it? In theory it is impossible in a capitalist society.
 In practice it is possible to regulate/force a seller to lower the prices to such a level that a merchandise becomes attractive enough. Like if I was offered two electric cars (one charging, another driving), free parts and service for life, difference in the cost of electricity to gasoline, paid parking space for the second car and $20,000 for trouble, I would consider driving that stuff.

 But that would mean forcing some products to be sold at smaller profit margin then others. In order to cover the shortfall the companies would have to raise prices on the regular cars. So in effect everyone buying a regular car would subsidise someone buying an electric car. Isn't that the same as TAX?

 Why not make it honest? Introduce a special extra tax from everyone driving ICE vehicle and give money to people buying electrical vehicles. I bet most of the people in California would be glad to pay extra tax and eagerly elect an official suggesting that.

miko

[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 02-14-2001).]

[Jigster]

zero-emissions cars don't have to be electric.

I haven't figured out why hydrogen-powered engines haven't caught on...

[Tac]

They will once the oil resources are exhausted. Do you realize how crazy (or crazier) the middle east will be if cars stopped needing gas?

[AKDejaVu]

 

I haven't figured out why hydrogen-powered engines haven't caught on...

Ever seen footage of Apollo 13?  How about the Hindenberg?

There is a company right now developing a long lasting hydrogen energy source battery.  Its primary application right now is for cell phones and other hand-held electrical applications.  It has the capability to power a cell phone for months without a re-charge.

This type of technology will eventually migrate to powered vehicles such as the now legendary yet-to-be seen scooter that Steve Job's was touting as the greatest invention of the millenium.

Once you get to the level of powering 3000 lb vehicles, Hydrogen power takes on a whole new form.  Serious (and quite valid) concerns arrise simply based on consumption, storage and everything else that is a source for Hydrogen worries.

AKDejaVu

[Jigster]

nm, altough those two instances were poor choices, especially Apollo 13, that had nothing to do with hydrogen, that was LOX.

[This message has been edited by Jigster (edited 02-14-2001).]

[miko2d]

 Thank you, Jigster, for hijacking my topic.
 I did not expect literal dolts to participate in this topic anyway, so I just used the term "electric" instead of listing all possible alternative ways of propulsion, all of which currently much more expencive and less convenient then gasoline. Even if I did, I am sure some one would come up with a new and obscure design anyway to show off.

 The question I am interested is:
 How could you obligate someone to sell a certain amount of something if there are no buyers for it? Is it legal in US?
 Can someone be punished for failure to sell something in US?

 Can a media company be obligated to sell certain magazines or books and closed down for failure to do so?

miko

[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 02-15-2001).]

[-towd_]

like you really want a answer . you are just squeakin. they see a problem commin and they are tryin to avoid it. if they provide insentives people will be interested. and ya know there are alot of thos nasty liberal types in california. they are tryin to avoid becoming a huge toxic waste dump like new york.

[Maverick]

 

Originally posted by -towd_:
like you really want a answer . you are just squeakin. they see a problem commin and they are tryin to avoid it. if they provide insentives people will be interested. and ya know there are alot of thos nasty liberal types in california. they are tryin to avoid becoming a huge toxic waste dump like new york.

Yeah Towd,

No one will see the toxic waste in the dark since they won't have enough electicity to make the lights work. What little juice they have will not be enough to run those electric cars on the freeway either.

Looks like a great way to limit population in the state. No one can move there if they don't have enought batteries to power their home.... Can we say energizer?????


Mav

[funked]

CARB are idiots.  Electric cars are not "zero emissions".

[Eagler]

sounds like they will be walking to the store to purchase their candles  

Eagler

[Fury]

Exactly Eagler.  California can't even supply itself with enough electricity now, much less when everyone starts buys electric or hybrid cars!

Fury

[MrBill]

Some of you may wish to read Cadillac Dessert, Arizona is not far behind CA in the race to run out of water and power.

------------------
OhNooo
smile awhile

[miko2d]

 

Originally posted by -towd_:
like you really want a answer . you are just squeakin.

 I am squeaking, true. But I have only been living in US for 11 years. Granted, I have a lot of experience in different areas of american live and I am pretty intelligent and highly inquisitive, but I am sure I still ignorant about many things. On top of that I live in NY City which is quite different from other parts of the country.
 So I would love to hear from some knowlegeable guy - lawer or environmentalists or whoever on how that law is going to be enforced.

 I know that in the Soviet Union we were obligated to buy certain things - subscribtions to all the major newspapers for adults (Pravda & Isvestia) and some magazines and other newspapers. Those who declined to do so were not severely punished but marked as "not participating in public life" in their Personal Case. When time came for promotion or a job assignment after college or a voucher for a vacation trip or  application for an appartment such a person would be at the bottom of the list.
 Even then it was regulation of the buyers, not sellers.

miko

[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 02-15-2001).]

[mietla]

 

Originally posted by funked:
CARB are idiots.  Electric cars are not "zero emissions".

You are right. Those morons already "solved" one problem and gave us MTBE. As a result they fcuked our precious and limited water supply for no gain at all. The MTBE gasoline is much less efficient, so you have to burn more of it to get the same distance.

We paid a ton of money to get this siht in, and now will pay again to take it out.

They will not stop before they'll take our cars away.

Man, I just hate government solving problems. Everything they touch turns into siht.

[Zigrat]

electric cars use hydrogen and oxygen

how do you think we get H2 and O2? Electrolosys.

Where do we get our electricity? Fossil fuels.

So you burn oil either way.


I am a big proponent of nuclear power in the US. I wiould like to see all fossil fuel burning power plants eliminated by 2025. Its the only real "clean" power producing method other than geothermal or wind/solar (hydroeletric harms the environment more than nuclear in some cases)