Author Topic: What needs to be changed in the US electoral process (Read 1053 times)

Eagler · « **on:** November 08, 2000, 08:55:00 AM »

What needs to be changed in the US electoral process:

Kill exit polls - skewed results with the FL premature tally

One person, one vote - in FL we still use paper punch cards without any identity to vote. I'd like to see better scrutiny of voter ID and an electronic means to vote. Faster results, this day and age a tally should be immediate and accurate.

Rehashing or eliminating the Electoral College. How does crazy CA warrant over double 90% of the other states? The numbers need to be closer or kill the entire college.

More emphasis on popular vote (accurate votes, see #1). Require the media to show real numbers, not projections geared toward their own agendas.

that's a few, your thoughts and comments please

Eagler

leonid · « **Reply #1 on:** November 08, 2000, 09:05:00 AM »

I'd like to get rid of the electoral thing too, but it's an amendment. And if you modify or eliminate one amendment, then you set a legal precedent to do likewise to other amendments. It could get kind of dicey.

F4UDOA · « **Reply #2 on:** November 08, 2000, 09:08:00 AM »

Why do you imply that they media changes the out come of the vote? They work on a prediction system that is over 90% accurate and they don't report on a state until the polling is closed in that state.

Do you think it is a conspiracy?

Eagler · « **Reply #3 on:** November 08, 2000, 09:14:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by F4UDOA:
Why do you imply that they media changes the out come of the vote? They work on a prediction system that is over 90% accurate and they don't report on a state until the polling is closed in that state.

Do you think it is a conspiracy?

When they predict a winner with less than 20% of the voting districts reporting and the spread is less than 5%, something is wrong. And yes, in the name of ratings, they screw the system by influencing the simple minded.

Eagler

Mickey1992 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 08, 2000, 09:21:00 AM »

What I can't believe is that Florida still uses paper punch cards.

And yes, I too believe that the Electoral College should go away.

Karnak · « **Reply #5 on:** November 08, 2000, 09:29:00 AM »

Eagler,
The booths in Florida were long closed before they first, mistakenly, gave it away.

The media predictions were annoying, but they had NO effect on the Florida race.

California is worth 54 Electoral votes because of a thing called "population". Maybe you've heard of it.

If this election were going on popular vote, Al Gore would already have made his acceptance speach.

As it is, I expect George W Bush to win.

Sisu
-Karnak

Eagler · « **Reply #6 on:** November 08, 2000, 11:41:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak:
Eagler,
The booths in Florida were long closed before they first, mistakenly, gave it away.

The media predictions were annoying, but they had NO effect on the Florida race.

California is worth 54 Electoral votes because of a thing called "population". Maybe you've heard of it.

If this election were going on popular vote, Al Gore would already have made his acceptance speech.

As it is, I expect George W Bush to win.

Sisu
-Karnak

Yes, I speak of the rest of the country's vote not FL. Many undecided wait and see which way the momentum is swinging before voting so they can say they voted for the winner. They (the media) should be required to wait until ALL voting booths across the nation are closed before they "predict" a winner. They can show the numbers as they come in but leave it at that.

Eagler

miko2d · « **Reply #7 on:** November 08, 2000, 12:03:00 PM »

Asking people exiting the voting boths is legal. So is publishing any conclusion you draw from it, whether valid or not.
Are newspeople trying to influence the voting? Quite possibly. But that is what they do openly by endorsing the candidates and pushing their views.
You cannot forbid the slimy lying bastards (media) to conduct and publish the exit polls without adding another constitution amendment, because it would contradict the Freedom of Speech.

If the public is so ignorant as to be influenced by that, that is the root of the problem, not influence.

Declaring Florida for Gore may have helped Bush because some democrats may have decided their vote was no longer important.

Leonid,
What on Earth do you mean by "if you modify or eliminate one amendment, then you set a legal precedent to do likewise to other amendments. It could get kind of dicey."???
Not only there is nothing wrong with amending the Constitution to keep it up-todate with times, but we have plenty of "precedents" already - count the number of the amendments.

Constitution is not a holy scripture but a legal document. The Founding Fathers were not prophets to foresee everything.

Granted, some of of them arguably made things worse (like letting women vote

), but you cannot presume that any change would be for the worse...

miko

Ripsnort · « **Reply #8 on:** November 08, 2000, 12:10:00 PM »

"Granted, some of of them arguably made things worse (like letting women vote ), but you cannot presume that any change would be for the worse..." Miko

Man, you better hope that Yankee don't read this, and if she does, don't plan on making any Cons in the future cause she WHOOP ya!

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 11-08-2000).]

Lance · « **Reply #9 on:** November 08, 2000, 12:15:00 PM »

Prohibition was an amendment, and its repeal was an amendment. I don't think doing away with the electoral college taints the sanctity of our constitution or makes it any easier to change it.

The electoral college needs to go away. It was necessary when created to protect a fledgling republic, and to deal with problems of communication and transportation in a less technologically advanced world. There is no longer any purpose for it.

Eagler · « **Reply #10 on:** November 08, 2000, 01:33:00 PM »

Florida also covers two time zones. The media had predicted a winner while the polls still had over thirty minutes to vote in the panhandle. Estimates put over 100,000 votes for Bush (mainly military) from that region. How many votes did they not get because of this false news? Amazing how the media wants to hold everyone else accountable for their actions, i.e. tobacco, but does not hold themselves to the same standard.

Eagler

Fatty · « **Reply #11 on:** November 08, 2000, 01:42:00 PM »

The reason it can have an effect is because polls in other states are still open. I don't think it hurt Bush that CNN miscalled Florida, more likely it hurt Gore as more who had not yet voted may have moved to Nader trying to get him to the magic 5%, thinking Gore had carried Florida so would likely win the election.

It would be in our best interests I think to hold predictions until at least the continental US, if not Alaska and Hawaii, are all closed.

For the record I don't have a problem with the Electorate, with the states submitting their opinion as a block they tend to hold more value to the candidates (but then again, I moved from one important state (FL) to another (TX), I wouldn't be suprised to see a different opinion from those living in smaller states).

Toad · « **Reply #12 on:** November 08, 2000, 02:38:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by leonid:
I'd like to get rid of the electoral thing too, but it's an amendment. And if you modify or eliminate one amendment, then you set a legal precedent to do likewise to other amendments. It could get kind of dicey.

Do you understand the how's and why's of amendments? Who do you think wrote the first ones?

F4UDOA: Why do you imply that they media changes the out come of the vote? They work on a prediction system that is over 90% accurate...

They absolutely change the outcome of the vote. Particularly when they announce before polls are closed in all states. (There are documented studies on this, btw.) They are especially bad form when they announce INCORRECTLY (90%? That means they are WRONG 10% of the time) before polls close in all states.

Dowding · « **Reply #13 on:** November 08, 2000, 03:22:00 PM »

This is the first American Presidential elections I've payed close attention to.

I've gotta say looking from the outside, that your elections were a bit of a farce. The media network's involvement in giving the results to the public is a prime example of the 'instant gratification' culture that all our country's seem to strive towards. Democracy in action isn't very exciting (especially when 90 million votes have to counted), but I believe turning it into a horse-race just to create a media event is unadulterated dumbing down of the whole process.

At least the lawyers will have something to do over the next few weeks.

I used to think that the money involved in the advertisement campaigns in British General Elections was pretty bad - but the more I learn of the money used to 'elect' a president the more I'm appalled. The 2 billion pounds spent in this campaign is 30 times more than was spent by all parties over here, in the 1997 general election.

It seems to me the electoral process described in the State of Florida is more akin to that used in a Banana republic, rather than the great democracy the States undoubtedly is.

The process in this country is on a smaller scale, but our media does not give exit polls that are sponsored by media networks, very much credence. They wait for a 'returning officer'. I know in the States that this would take a little longer (a week by the sound of it). But which is more true to the aim of election?

wrench · « **Reply #14 on:** November 08, 2000, 04:03:00 PM »

What I see is a liberal media who is once again chasing their own agenda, this time they look really silly. This year they have proven that they aren't really unbiased reporters, I have rarely seen so many of them so worried. All day I have heard how some Florida voters were confused and how some overseas folks missed the deadline for absentee. It seems to me if you can't be bothered to read the instructions, or can't be bothered with deadlines, you get what you deserve. Voting is serious business, perhaps some of these people will now realize that.

The electoral college does need looked at, population I understand, but I don't really like California having such sway over the country. The great thing about different states is that people with different idea's can move to a state that is more in line with their thinking (yeah Alaska!!), the present system seems to force other peoples idea's on each other rather than allowing different folks to live different ways, yet be united. I would welcome a popular vote only, even knowing Gore would have won in that system. I would also welcome a return to less US federal government interference world wide.

The funny thing is this, the media had PREPARED the population for GORE to win the electoral and for BUSH to win the popular. Saying that those were the rules and that we all had to live by them, now all they are doing is complaining about it

Oh yeah and lets not forget the dead guy the democrats are trying to elect. The guy is no longer a resident of the state and they think they can vote him, (or his wife!) in. LOL, liberals just do things and then wait to see if it is legal, this needs to stop too.

Wrench - lurker