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Author Topic: Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil  (Read 11531 times)

Offline Guppy35

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #105 on: July 19, 2006, 11:51:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bruno


Yeah, Jugs, P-51s, F4Us, F6Fs etc... never were multi-role. I mean they didn't fly the exact same missions as P-38 and do them better did they...?

Hell, look at the short 'lifespan' of the P-51 and F4Us, one or 2 wars and they were done...



Seriously, you P-38 cultists get more comical with new batch...


I'm a big P38 fan, but I'd suggest that the 38 probably is more like the  F111 was in the long run.  A complex weapons system that in the end got replaced by less expensive and lower maint birds that could do the job just as well if not better.

The 51 would be the F15, multi-role, long range.

The P47 was probably the F4 of the crowd

Not sure who the WW2 F16 was unless you can use the Spit as the comparison, but obviously thats not a USAAF bird.
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Offline Bruno

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #106 on: July 20, 2006, 12:08:47 AM »
I don't think these comparisons really mean much. I certainly don't think we can link a progression from the P-38 to any aircraft used to today (or P-51 / P-47 etc..)

The roll of aircraft in war hasn't really changed. The equipment has just gotten more sophisticated and improved but there's no lineage from the P-38 to the F-111 or F-15.

The P-38 was not:

Quote
the F-15's great grandaddy.


The cultists will make any claim in their quest to proselytize the P-38s prowess.
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Offline Treize69

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #107 on: July 20, 2006, 12:09:51 AM »
I always thought of the P-38 as the F-15, P-51 as F-16, P-47 as A-10 (both Republic Thunderbolts afterall...), the F6F as the F-14 and the F4U as the F/A 18.

If you wanna make previous generation comparisons, then the P-40 is the F-5A, P-39 is the F-105, and the F4F is the... well, F-4 :)

"proselytize"- my, we like to throw out big words to try and numb peoples mind into accepting our POV don't we?
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Offline Bruno

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #108 on: July 20, 2006, 12:34:40 AM »
Quote
"proselytize"- my, we like to throw out big words to try and numb peoples mind into accepting our POV don't we?


Big word..? OK...

My 'big words' are no larger then the 'exaggerations' (oops another big word) of the cultists.
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Offline Debonair

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #109 on: July 20, 2006, 12:41:51 AM »
"the branch davidian tailed devil" lmao!!!!1:aok :aok :aok :rofl :rofl :rofl :O
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Offline DiabloTX

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #110 on: July 20, 2006, 12:42:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Debonair
"the branch davidian tailed devil" lmao!!!!1:aok :aok :aok :rofl :rofl :rofl :O


Holy crap I was thinking the exact same thing.

:noid
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Offline gripen

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #111 on: July 20, 2006, 02:03:48 AM »
At 30k the P-51B (V-1650-3) was pretty much the F-15 of it's date but it's hard to find a plane as limited at 30k as the P-38 out of modern aircraft.

Generally the P-38 did pretty well when used in the lower altitudes (say below 20k) and the LW pilots who fought against it at low altitudes (MTO) seem to respect it. But in ETO where the fight was mostly at high altitudes, the LW pilots had not much respect on it.

gripen
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Offline Angus

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #112 on: July 20, 2006, 05:18:42 AM »
"Die P-38 begeistert mich nicht auf den ersten Blick. Zwei Motoren und eine Steuersaule, die den Anchein erwect, als hatte man sie aus ein Verkehrsflugzeug ubernommen - so sieht kein Jager aus. Aber auch sie halt eine Uberraschung bereit: Ihre steuerung arbeited mit Servo-Unterstutzung, so man das schwere Flugzeug im Luftkampf fast mit dem kleiner Finger fliegen kann"
Gunther Rall, Mein Flugbuch p.214

Short translation: The P38 didnt impress me much at first, 2 engines etc - looks of a transporter, - no fighter looks like that! But she also (as the other allied fighters he flew) has a surprize. The controls have power-assist so that one could fly this heavy aircraft in a battle with just ones little finger.

Same page, on the quality of allied fighters:
"Wie sehr sind uns die Allierten auch in Jagdflugzeugbau uberlegen!"

How much better the Allies also are at building fighters would be a close translation...
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Offline Hawco

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #113 on: July 20, 2006, 09:35:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bruno
about what..? Show a 'Galland lie'...

Lowell OTOH should change his call sign to:



LOL !!
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Offline Knegel

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #114 on: July 21, 2006, 12:18:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by gripen

Generally the P-38 did pretty well when used in the lower altitudes (say below 20k) and the LW pilots who fought against it at low altitudes (MTO) seem to respect it. But in ETO where the fight was mostly at high altitudes, the LW pilots had not much respect on it.

gripen


Hi,

the rated altitude of the P38J was 25000ft, it had its best relative performence above 20000ft.  Below this its wasnt a match for the german planes. Its service selling was one of the highest in the US with 42000ft.
The P38 was a high alt fighters, its engine problems in cold air may have limited this a bit, but for sure it wasnt made as a low alt fighter.
The high wingaspectratio and the center fuselage/tail related turbolences limited ints max mach number and Vmax badly. According to my datas it was the slowest US plane at sealevel, together with the F6F.
544km/h and 1140m/min sea level with 2 x 1600HP(war emergency power) isnt a that good result. The P51B with military power was 20mph faster at sea level and the climb was only 100m/min worse.

In high alt the P38 could shine, not in low alt, of course only if the technic did work.

Greetings,
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Offline gripen

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #115 on: July 21, 2006, 03:02:40 AM »
Knegel,
Please read the BAC report on P-38 from Ring's site. I'm not talking about raw performance but compressibility effects.

gripen
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #116 on: July 21, 2006, 09:08:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bruno
[B

Seriously, you P-38 cultists get more comical with new batch... [/B]


There is no one in the entire community more obsessed with the P-38 than you. It just happens your obsession with the P-38 is negative, not surprising considering your Luftwaffe bent. The truth is, no one in this community posts in more P-38 threads more often than you.  No one is more comical than you. Your perpetual anti P-38 rant has been a great source of comic relief, dating back to your "Wotan" days.
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Offline Knegel

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #117 on: July 21, 2006, 09:08:58 AM »
Hi gripen,

iam not sure which one is the BAC report(no fun to D/L all with ISDN), but dive limits seems to be always good above the Vmax of the P38J.

Could you please give me the direct link?

Thanks in advance!
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Offline Bruno

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #118 on: July 21, 2006, 10:44:29 AM »
Quote
There is no one in the entire community more obsessed with the P-38 than you. It just happens your obsession with the P-38 is negative, not surprising considering your Luftwaffe bent. The truth is, no one in this community posts in more P-38 threads more often than you. No one is more comical than you. Your perpetual anti P-38 rant has been a great source of comic relief, dating back to your "Wotan" days.


Count the number of P-38 threads I have replies in and let us know, then come back here apologize for lying.

I haven't 'ranted against the P-38.' I said it was adequate, to you cultists that's heresy I know. What I have replied to in this thread is your exaggerations. You Ami Jihadists may not like hearing that but confronting fundamentalism in all its forms is a good thing.

Wotan Mit Uns!!! :p
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Offline gripen

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #119 on: July 21, 2006, 10:56:53 AM »
Knegel,
The report is named:

RAAF command Lightning II report receive date 11 Oct 1943.doc

gripen
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