Author Topic: Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil  (Read 11160 times)

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #75 on: July 13, 2006, 09:01:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MiloMorai
wheel barrows

possibly means gardening operations


Cool. Show me any other plane that was capable of gardening.:D
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Offline Krusty

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #76 on: July 13, 2006, 09:03:37 PM »
Quote

One more edit. Looks like 54th FS flying 38Es and Fs in the Aleutians was doing ground attack and dive bombing February-March 1943 to start.


Well if they're in Alaska, what are they doing shooting down axis aircraft?

That's probably somewhere in the ETO.

Oh, and training doesn't mean they used them that way. You train folks to dive bomb. Doesn't mean they always do it. Just means they know how :)

(I have to mention that, I'm playing devil's advocate!)

Offline MiloMorai

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #77 on: July 13, 2006, 09:08:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Cool. Show me any other plane that was capable of gardening.:D
Gardening is mine laying missions. I will let you Google to find what a/c were capable of such missions.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #78 on: July 13, 2006, 09:12:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Well if they're in Alaska, what are they doing shooting down axis aircraft?

That's probably somewhere in the ETO.

Oh, and training doesn't mean they used them that way. You train folks to dive bomb. Doesn't mean they always do it. Just means they know how :)

(I have to mention that, I'm playing devil's advocate!)


Uh Krusty, are you COMPLETELY unaware of the fact that Japan, part of the Axis, invaded the Aleutians (island chain, part of Alaska) during World War II and HEAVY combat operations ensued, including serious air to air and air to ground action. If you are completely oblivious to that, please, look it up.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #79 on: July 13, 2006, 09:13:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MiloMorai
Gardening is mine laying missions. I will let you Google to find what a/c were capable of such missions.


LOL, it was a joke.;)
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Guppy35

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #80 on: July 13, 2006, 09:38:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Well if they're in Alaska, what are they doing shooting down axis aircraft?

That's probably somewhere in the ETO.

Oh, and training doesn't mean they used them that way. You train folks to dive bomb. Doesn't mean they always do it. Just means they know how :)

(I have to mention that, I'm playing devil's advocate!)


Go back and read it again Krusty.  Sometimes I think you just like to be contrary :)

54th FS in 38Es and later F and Gs flew in some of the worst weather anywhere.  Interestingly in their official history and the stuff written since they didn't complain about the cold in their 38s and they managed to fly combat in them and these were the early birds.    They hadn't gotten the memo about how bad the 38 was.  First 38 kills of the war were August 4, 1942 when two Mavis flying boats were shot down by two 54th FS 38s.

These guys did all kinds of things in that lousy weather.  In 42 they took 38Es and tested range and found they could stay up for 11 hours. At the same time in the ETO the bombers weren't getting escorted and the 38s that could have at least provided some help were sent to North Africa.

4 54th FS pilots, out of boredom, more then anything else, on a mission where they were supposed to escort Navy bombers, 'failed to find them', and instead flew down and strafed Japanese targets on the Kurile Islands which are part of the Japanese home islands.  Because it wasn't an 'official' approved  mission, it never made the records but the 4 pilots, including the one who came back single engine, sure remember it.  

Just to clarify Krusty.  The Pac 38s first dive bombed in November 42, the MTO 38s in April 43 and the Aleutian 38s in February 43.  If you want images of 38s with the bomb symbols on em, I can do that for ya :)
Dan/CorkyJr
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Offline Krusty

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #81 on: July 13, 2006, 10:28:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Uh Krusty, are you COMPLETELY unaware of the fact that Japan, part of the Axis, invaded the Aleutians (island chain, part of Alaska) during World War II and HEAVY combat operations ensued, including serious air to air and air to ground action. If you are completely oblivious to that, please, look it up.


Gee... look at the nazi kill signs... I don't think the nazis were flying Jagdgeschwader in Japan, man. I thought that point was rather clear, sorry if you didn't get it.

*EDIT* No sarcasm meant. I honestly meant I thought I was clear.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2006, 10:33:01 PM by Krusty »

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #82 on: July 13, 2006, 11:33:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Gee... look at the nazi kill signs... I don't think the nazis were flying Jagdgeschwader in Japan, man. I thought that point was rather clear, sorry if you didn't get it.

*EDIT* No sarcasm meant. I honestly meant I thought I was clear.


Well, the picture was labeled 1st FG, which did fly against the Luftwaffe.

The commentary with the picture, however, said 54th FS, which flew the Aleutian/Alaskan theater.

And you said Axis planes in Alaska. Japan was the other major part of the Axis. So, the 54th would be knocking down Axis planes around Alaska. just Japanese Axis planes, not German Axis planes.

So no, you were actually quite vague.
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Offline Angus

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #83 on: July 14, 2006, 09:09:52 AM »
Also bear in mind that a pilot operating in more than one theater with more than one aircraft would chalk up his total kills on his ride.
I've seen a Spitfire with lots of LW crosses and one red sun ;)
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Offline Scherf

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #84 on: July 14, 2006, 09:13:41 AM »
There's also a pic in one of the Osprey books of a 605 Squadron Mosquito with the pilot's Japanese and German kill markings.
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline MiloMorai

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #85 on: July 14, 2006, 09:46:26 AM »
Someplace I saw a pic with Italian, German and Japanese kill markings.

Offline 68Hawk

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #86 on: July 14, 2006, 07:10:13 PM »
Near as I can tell they're either tractors or locamotives.  They actually look more like covered wagons than anything else, at least in that picture.  Probably safe to say they're some kind of ground targets.
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Offline Guppy35

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #87 on: July 15, 2006, 01:24:16 AM »
This guy got his German and Italian kills flying 38s with the 82nd in the MTO.  He ended up in the Pacific flying 51s and got his Japanese kill.  His American "kill" was a lost C47 that was setting up to land on a Japanese Island.  The C47 ditched and the crew were rescued after he carefully shot out the engines.
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #88 on: July 15, 2006, 02:01:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by 68Hawk
Near as I can tell they're either tractors or locamotives.  They actually look more like covered wagons than anything else, at least in that picture.  Probably safe to say they're some kind of ground targets.



Looking closely, I'm almost certain they are wheelbarrows. The reason I say that is the old primitive wooden wheelbarrows, which are easily drawn, look just like those little symbols. They appear to have wheels only on one end. And handles, as well as "tubs".
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Offline Raptor

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Luftwaffe accounts of "The Forked Tailed Devil
« Reply #89 on: July 15, 2006, 02:04:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Uh Krusty, are you COMPLETELY unaware of the fact that Japan, part of the Axis, invaded the Aleutians (island chain, part of Alaska) during World War II and HEAVY combat operations ensued, including serious air to air and air to ground action. If you are completely oblivious to that, please, look it up.

It was in fact, the forgotten theatre