Dead man walking...

[Dowding]

I mean pleazzzzzzze...

How can anyone take an electoral system that allows a dead man to be elected seriously?

[Toad]

Well, Dowding, please enlighten us with your "better way".

First, here's a few facts you need to absorb.

The legal guidance exists for this situation:

1. A state's Governor appoints a Senator's replacement should he die in office. This has happened many times.

2. A state's Governor appoints a Senator's replacement should he be elected and die before taking the oath of office. This has happened several times.

3. A state's Governor appoints a Senatorial candidate's replacement should he win his party's nomination and then die and subsequently win the election (Carnahan's case.)

4. A state's Governor, in any of the above cases, is not required to appoint a replacemtent of the same political party IIRC.

5. The citizens of Missouri knew exactly who they were voting for. The day after Carnahan died, the Governor announced that he would appoint the widow to the Senate should Carnahan win posthumously. Mrs. Carnahan thought about it a few days and announced she would accept.

Now how would you have it done?

[1776]

Comrade,toad, what I find interesting is the fact that no one really knows anything of Mrs.C's stand on the issues, but just voted Mr C.  The only conclusion one is able to draw is anti-republicanism.  So be it. The people have spoken!!

I wonder if we can run Lincoln here in Kansas next election  Na, right wing extremist!!  Leawood republicans wouldn't stand for it!!

[This message has been edited by 1776 (edited 11-08-2000).]

[Eagler]

 

Originally posted by 1776:
Comrade,toad, what I find interesting is the fact that no one really knows anything of Mrs.C's stand on the issues, but just voted Mr C.  The only conclusion one is able to draw is anti-republicanism.  So be it. The people have spoken!!

I wonder if we can run Lincoln here in Kansas next election    Na, right wing extremist!!  Leawood republicans wouldn't stand for it!!

[This message has been edited by 1776 (edited 11-08-2000).]

I'm under the impress the Republican was ahead in the polls prior to the plane crash.

How do you run a typical, slam your opponent on the issues, campaign against a corpse without looking like a mean spirited arse? I'd be interested in hearing from someone who voted for the dead guy.

Eagler

[Toad]

Well, it certainly changed the campaign. One guy quit campaigning totally   and the other guy had to shut up or look very mean spirited.

It may have been a "sympathy vote" or it may be what the majority of Missourians actually wanted. They knew who would be taking office. Jeez...New Yorkers wanted Billary for Cod's Sake! Explain that!  

In any event, Mrs. Carnahan is not going to destroy the Republic alone. The spacing of Senatorial terms ensures that all the rookies don't arrive at once.

Those Founder's were indeed singularly wise idividuals.

In short....I'm not concerned about it a bit. If she turns out to be good, she'll get re-elected. If she is a bozo, she'll get turned out. It's not like we haven't had bozo Senators before, just as we've had a few really good ones.

[Dowding]

Toad - my point is this; if Mrs. Carnahan agreed to stand in her dead husband's place, why was his name on the ballot paper and not hers? Surely changing the name on the ballot paper would avoid the embarrasing and bizarre situation you now have?



[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 11-08-2000).]

[LJK Raubvogel]

His name was still on the ballot because it is state law.

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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

[1776]

Comrade, Mr C died in a plane crash just days after the deline to change the ballot.  By law his name had to stay on the ballot.

[sling322]

I believe they could not legally remove his name because the deadline had already passed.  I think there may be a possibility that he won the "sympathy vote".  I also heard the folks on CBS saying that there was probably gonna be a challenge by the losing party to try to keep the governor from appointing his wife to the spot.  I dont know what kind of grounds they could use, but all in all this whole election year has been pretty wild.

[Toad]

Dowding,

While I am somewhat familiar with the Parliamentary form of government that you live under, I certainly do not presume to know all of your election laws.

Nor would I be quick to proclaim that "the embarrasing and bizarre situation you now have" is one that should not have happened or been allowed.

What happened when Governor Carnahan died in the plane crash is EXACTLY what was supposed to happen BY LAW. There is nothing embarassing or bizarre about it.

His name remained on the ballot because the DEADLINE for ANY changes to the ballot had passed. Surely every country has such a deadline? How else could you ensure that correct, official ballots are available to the voters on the appointed polling day at the appointed time?

It is also, WITHOUT QUESTION the new Governor's right and responsibility to appoint the person to replace a deceased Senator, whether serving, Senator-elect or Senatorial Nominee who subsequently is elected.

IMHO, the new Governor was a bit premature in announcing Mrs. Carnahan as his choice. I see that as a somewhat blatant "sympathy" angle. It happened so fast that not much time could have been spent considering and vetting other possible choices. She has no actual experience other than being married to a politician; she has never held elected or appointed office.

There must have been more qualified candidates. I see it as a purely "political" move. The Governor was under no requirement to even name the replacement until after the election. The seat can go unfilled until such time as he chooses to fill it, IIRC. It's his decision on his own timeline.

However, as I said, I also believe the Nation will survive Mrs. Carnahan.

She may suprise us all. To misquote "some women aspire to greatness and some women have greatness thrust upon them" (Get your minds out of the gutter.      ) She may end up being a great Senator.

Of course, she may be tossed out on her ear in six years as well.

The people of Missouri knew all of this. They have made their choice. It is not our place to complain, critique or mock them. It was their right.

BTW, you never have explained how your enlightened form of government acts in such a situation.

Please do.

[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 11-08-2000).]

[Dowding]

As far as I know, Toad, the local party would have to nominate a replacement candidate and it would be his/her name that would appear on ballot papers etc. In the unlikely event that the candidate died on the day of the election (for sake of argument, since it would be impossible to allow a proper campaign with the new candidate to run), then the contest would have to be re-run. I think this would apply in both local government elections and the general election. But a candidate dying on the day of election has never happened in this counrty (as far as I am aware).

I understand it might be law for the nominees of a party to remain unchanged a certain time before an election - but sometimes laws have to be amended to provide for certain circumstances. I can't be the only one who thinks it's bizarre that a dead man is elected to office. This is especially so considering the closeness of the contest in question (1% I believe); the 'sympathy' vote for the widow might have swung it.

You also misunderstand me - I wasn't mocking the people who voted, but the system they were voting in.  


[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 11-08-2000).]

[Dnil]

in name only was he elected, just words on a piece of paper, everyone knew who was going to the senate, his wife. She will be there 2 years I believe, special circumstance from the normal 6.

Seems the eurotrash enjoys America too much, country envy?  I could care less who's saving the queen this week.

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Dnil---Skyhawk until I get Dnil back
Maj. 900th Bloody Jaguars
Part time aircraft restorer. www.kingwoodcable.com/jheuer

[Toad]

Dowding,

Is there no deadline for printing your ballots? What do you do, just scribble the names on a bar napkin?    

You actually mean to tell me the slate of candidates can be changed right up until polling day? That would make things interesting!

As far as re-running the election for say, a MP, you would just start the whole process over? Those people in that district would just have no representation in the Commons until you could get it all re-run?

Dnil is right. I think the appointment is just 2 years vice six. She serves until we hold the next mid-term national elections.

While I understand completely that you prefer your system to ours, please understand we still prefer ours nonetheless.

But then you folks have known that since 1776, haven't you?    

Our system seems to have been rather successful for us.

 

[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 11-08-2000).]

[1776]

Hmmm,comrade,toad,I think there will be a special election in 2 years that Mrs C will have to campaign in to hold,  Am I wrong on this or will she serve the whole 6 yr term?

[Dowding]

Ad absurdum:

 

Seems the eurotrash enjoys America too much, country envy? I could care less who's saving the queen this week.

Perhaps I could take your comments seriously if you actually learned how to string a coherent sentence together. Or perhaps you're too busy with your appearances on TV as Jerry's 'special guest'?

I think what you meant to write was "I couldn't care less who is saving the queen this week". Well neither could I, I'm a republican, you cretin.

Toad - delaying an election to get the right result is far more desirable than having a contest run that would be tainted by sympathy for one of the candidates, as described above. In addition to this, parliament does not hold a new session until several weeks after the general election - plenty of time to appoint the deputy of the deceased and run a brief electoral campaign.