Why AH is immune to Il-2

[AKSWulfe]

We are in complete agreement ThirdUp.

The comment about system requirements wasn't neccesarily to compare AH and Il-2 but to give an idea of what is required of the masses to get them into a massive environment.

Now granted, when/if the Maddox Team makes a MMP version of Il-2, I'd be willing to wager that 1Ghz CPUs will be the norm simply because it will take him some time to create MMP code and a server and all that stuff that accompanies a MMP services.

So basically in the end Il-2 will be quite a nice boxed game and be a good break for the occasional small game, but Aces High is where my buddies and targets are and so far it's proven to be great at what it's intended to do.

I'm on the verge of a system upgrade anyway, and will probably have a 1.4Ghz <drool> within the next few weeks.

Anyways, that's it for me and this thread. I really have nothing more to contribute or to further more degrade it, so I'll see some of you in AH's skies.. and the rest I won't care about.  
S! ThirdUp
-SW

[Westy MOL]

"I'm not saying IL-2 will set any new standards or even in itself raise the bar.....but that bar will be raised. Do you really think AH will be able to compete w/o ever raising it's reqs?"

 IMO, IL2 WILL (and is) raising the bar, just as EAW did three years ago. So is WB III. As new methods and programming improve what we do and see folks will incorporate it as they always have. Hristo is just naive in thinking IL2 is the second coming and nothing like it has ever come along and had the impact he thinks it will. (obligatory tweak at Twisto)
 
 And HTC will need to keep AH competative and to be honest they have raised specs as they've gone along. HTC has added many features to *MMPOG* that no one has before. Terrain builder/editor, clouds, mannable fleets CV's, amphibs. And still kept the specs incredibly low in comparison to what FA III, WB IIII and WW2O demand. And will probably with the beta version being tested out when fully released.
 IL2 is first and foremost a box sim and is there fore not in the same league or category as any MMPOg is.  And for Oleg or BlueByte to even mention not having MMP in the future would ruin some sales. So it wil lalways remaind "maybe" "we hope to add it" and "it's a possibility"

Westy

[Mathman]

Originally posted by Hristo:
Il-2 has everything I expected of a sim. AH approach was - no, we can't model this, no we can't model that.

Oleg and his team delivered what HTC made us thought to be impossible. A full historical sim with so far unseen dedication to detail.
Oleg and team showed these big boys how it is done.

Historical cockpits, improved gunnery with realistic ammo mixes, weather effects, incredible damage model and immersion AH never could even dream of having.

One should be retarded as Creamo not to recognize that Il-2 is by far better sim than AH (read the thread title).

Compalining about demo FM ? Even like this it feels great. Do not forget you were paying for a pre 1.03 FM in this sim.

I almost feel like cheated because I played AH for so long. Impossible to do better cockpits, impossible to model different rounds, no HA for almost two years, no metric system, ultra simplistic engine management. Hell, how wouldn't I come here and rub it again and again ?

And this amazinhunk Creamo dares to whine about Oleg's English ? How is your Russian, tard ?

Man, I don't know about anyone else, but Hristo completely convinced me.  As a matter of fact, I am uninstalling this POS game AH from my HD as I type this.  

Can't you guys see that Il-2 will revolutionize everything!!!!  In three years, I bet we will all be using Il-2 to make toast and do our taxes for us using TSAGI charts.  Il-2 will be the dessert topping and floor wax of the future!  I will lose my job as a teacher because Il-2 will teach the kids for me!  Il-2 will replace plastic as the greatest invention by man in the last 100 years.  Il-2 will indeed be the better mouse trap that everyone has been searching for.  

Why can't you guys see the light?  AH was good, for the 3 seconds it took for me to realize that the 109 was modelled wrong.  I mean, come on, a Zeke can actually turn inside it?  A Jug can outdive it?  Its cannons are not as good as the hispanos?  Yeah, right.         You guys are just dense and are scared of the future.  Il-2 will revolutionize the world!  First, it was the Beatles, now comes Oleg the magic ex-communist game programmer!!  Il-2 WILL replace the US Constitution, Magna Carta, and the "Where's Waldo" books as the greatest written documents ever created by man.  Catholicism?  Judaism?  Islam?  Hindu?  Buddha?  All pretenders to the throne that will be held by Il-2.  God (or whatever your selected higher deity is known as) WISHES he/she/it was Oleg Maddox!!!!

-math

p.s. I honestly can't wait for Il-2 to come out.  Then maybe those of us that actually like AH can get some peace of mind knowing that the little lemmings will be off chasing yet another unicorn in hopes of catching the "greatest" sim ever.  BTW, I have the greatest sim ever on my HD still, and yes, it is AH.  Why?  Is it because it is the most realistic and best looking sim?  No, I think most can agree that other sims look better.  I also think we can all agree that there are things about AH that aren't realistic (whatever that loaded words truly means).  Why do I think it is the greatest?  Simpl, I get more enjoyment from an hour of AH than I ever did from an hour of ANY boxed sim.  Simple as that.

[ 08-31-2001: Message edited by: Mathman ]

[DB603]

S!

 SWulfe claiming there won't be too many flyable planes. Well..In IL-2 those planes that can be made flyable are already included in the game with complete FM/DM etc. The part they are missing at the moment are the cockpits. For example..We have as flyable Bf109G-2 with subvariants like R-6,R-3 etc. Fw190A-4 will be in final release. People are working on 3rd party add-on planes and cockpits on full steam. Is it because Your precious P47 or P51, not to forget Spitfire, ain't included? A sim without these ain't a sim? FYI Hawker Hurricane for example is under works among others, so there will be a plenty of planes around release and after it. And even the MP won't be MMPOG as in AH, I feel 16 vs 16 is quite a fight.
 And true AH is MMPOG, but where do You seriously see more than maybe 10-15 planes, even the log shows 90 player or more online?Wasn't there a restriction AH drawing only 32 planes/vehicles in same area and the rest was displayed as dots? And in my experience more than 10-15 planes in same area + smoke etc. causes a significant drop in FPS and drastically more warping and lag. MMPOG in numbers but not in visuals.
 I don't bash AH here, it is a good game as it is and evolving. But don't blame a game restricted because it offers only a 32 player dogfight, since You can't get more in reality in AH either without playability and other things suffering. Or do You guys enjoy playing a slideshow with starships warping all over the place? ;)My 2 cents. Flamers don't bother, I couldn't care less of Your halfarsed comments  

[AKSWulfe]

64 planes are the limit.

Last night, and the past few times I've logged on, there have been 40+ person furballs.

You can't get that with Il-2.

I have no idea what you are talking about "slide show" and "warping"... I never see either, except for players who have bad connections... in which case it's only them and it's their end not HTC.

But to each their own, if you like Il-2 and want to promote it. Do so on their own board.

A lot of your comments seem to come from a low end system and from being across the ocean.

Playing from the states is great, very little to no warping and for the low frame-rate... I maintain a steady 20fps in furballs around a field with smoke on my C466.
-SW

[Eagler]

Of course IL-2 is better than AH, it's from Europe and we all know they do everything better than us dumb Yanks  
 
Eye candy now, I'm sure I'll buy it just like I have every other WWII air combat box sim and I'm sure it'll be sitting on the desk or on ebay while I still fly AcesHigh within 90 days  

[highflyer]

I see alot of "cannots and will not be able too's" as far as IL2 goes.  

  wait untill they see whats in store for the future.


Have a feeling that they are about to eat their words  

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by highflyer:
I see alot of "cannots and will not be able too's" as far as IL2 goes.  

  wait untill they see whats in store for the future.


Have a feeling that they are about to eat their words  

Okay, I'm convinced this is the same guy that was saying this same thing when WW2 Online was about to hit the shelves..haven't seen him since...odd  

Actually, I think Olegs game is going to be the best Boxed sim we've seen in along time.  Hopefully, it will be a MMOG someday, I'd love to have accounts to both AH and IL2.

[Fury]

What we have is a few individuals peeing in HTCs sandbox and saying how much better one game is over the other.

It's a lot easier to get points across by sticking to how good IL2 is without all the peeing.


I always though B17-II was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

[ 08-31-2001: Message edited by: Fury ]

[miko2d]

Originally posted by Hristo:
AH approach was - no, we can't model this, no we can't model that.

 Do you realize the difference between not being capable of producing some feature due to stupidity and/or incompetence and/or lazyness of the programmer(s) and not yet getting to implementing some feature because of time constraints and limited resources.
 Which brings me to the most stupid statement on your part so far:
Oleg and team showed these big boys how it is done
 So you think that company of six people quite busy running successfull operation and doing development at the same time, only one of them actually programming (HT) qualifies as "big boys"?

 I saw references to multiple programmers on Oleg's team working for three years and not busy with maintenence and support.

 HTC made quite a good progress since it announced the AH game and will do more. It is quite possibly that some company with a lot of cash (or cheap programming labor) can defeat them by brute force. But it would not be their fault.

 So the only issues reamain a few points where there was concious decision to do some feature in one way or the other that does not greatly affect realizm in the opinion of creators. On those people can disagree with no hope of reconciliation.

 For instance:
 I am against historical cockpits. Besides view limitation, historical cockpit is only good if I am made to fly historically - few months/years in the the SAME plane.
 I do not fly like that. I switch planes and I think that a situation where pilot has to search for a compass in his cockpit is highly un-historical.

 I am a metric system man, but I dislike having both metric and US system as long as there is an AHISTORICAL chance of having both kinds of plane on the same side in the war.

 Ammo counters I concede.

 Ammo types? They will probably be there eventually. I would rather have HTC concentrate their limited resources on trains and DX8 then ammo types for now.

 Engine management? AH was more advanced then WB and will probably get better in that respect eventually.

 When it comes to dedication to detail/authenticity, your ravings are child's talk compared to ultra-serious discussions/things done by communities that fly/expand the games like F2, EAW, Fighter Squadron  and few others. What is common about those games - they are all boxed games with connectivity, not on-line games.

 I bet that when IL2 comes out you will easily find 16-32 other people in the world willing to fly EXACTLY the way you want few hours every weekend.
 Not so with 24x7 arena of 100+. So stop comparing apples and oranges. Many of the AH people play more advanced stuff and will play IL2 as well.
 Just do not call Il2 an on-line game yet.

 miko

[miko2d]

Originally posted by DB603:
...where do You seriously see more than maybe 10-15 planes, even the log shows 90 player or more online?Wasn't there a restriction AH drawing only 32 planes/vehicles in same area and the rest was displayed as dots?

 I may be fighting in a furball with 32 planes and 20 dots, but I know that I am distracting enemy attention from a low-level 15-jabo strike in the different place of the map, a 10+ bombing raid on the strategic target plus more people flying, sailing and driving towards the same purpose - with as much coordination as we want.

 In WB we had Joint Purple Command nights (secretely organised and planned for a week), when 60+ purples would sweep the map against 200+ of the rest of the enemies - with 12-15 squadrons performing multiple carefully coordinated sorties of all kinds. How would you do that in Il2?

 miko

[Rude]

This is so obvious, I can't believe I have to say it.

Framerate you bumbles!!!

Dale could produce to the sky if he didn't have to consider framerate, and of course, having fun. Let's just wait and see how internet friendly this il2 work of art really is. I think it will fall on its face in the area of framerate.

The Realism contingent now has a place to play....so go play will ya and leave the rest of us simpletons alone.

Oh, and Hristo...hard for me to listen to your propaganda when you don't compete where it counts

[Hristo]

And just where is that, tard ?

I have yet to see a warp in Il-2.

[Kratzer]

Originally posted by Cobra:


Not sure when the "game" and "fun" and "fly what you like and fly them all" parts ever got lost on this crowd
Cobra

Here, here!  I probably buy one or two games a month - usually after a lot of reading, so I enjoy most of them - some for a little while, and others for months or even years.

What I've found is that games in the same genre can be completely different, and yet both of them can be a helluva good time - sure, they all have weaknesses, but they all have strengths too - and that is what makes them original and fun.

It shouldn't be about what is 'right' so much as it should be about what is FUN

or somethin' like that...  

[Tozza]

Due to my recent "vacation" to the happy place where I received wonderfully refreshing electro-shock therapy,I have no idea what IL2 is.Could somone please take a minute to tell me.

Sorry for being so ignorant but I am from Yorkshire.

Tozza