Author Topic: Joining the Air Force  (Read 450 times)

Offline AquaShrimp

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« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2006, 07:43:48 PM »
Thanks a million for weighing in Gunslinger.  Man, I did not know that Air Force security was being used in Iraq.  I bet alot of guys are pissed that they are on foot-patrol with an M-16 after joining the Air Force.

Gunslinger, I had a buddy in college who went to airforce training at Tyndall AFB in Florida.  This guy was in the Air Force ROTC program, but had to go through what is known as "Field Training".  He said it was a breeze, and that it was mostly classroom training.  Whats that about?

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2006, 09:10:58 PM »
Shrimp,

Don't confuse ROTC training with active duty training, They are totally different.
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
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Offline rpm

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« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2006, 09:44:02 PM »
ROTC = Girl Scouts compared to basic.
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Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2006, 09:59:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Thanks a million for weighing in Gunslinger.  Man, I did not know that Air Force security was being used in Iraq.  I bet alot of guys are pissed that they are on foot-patrol with an M-16 after joining the Air Force.

Gunslinger, I had a buddy in college who went to airforce training at Tyndall AFB in Florida.  This guy was in the Air Force ROTC program, but had to go through what is known as "Field Training".  He said it was a breeze, and that it was mostly classroom training.  Whats that about?


Here's the skinny on that.  The USAF (bless it's heart) is FINALLY getting rid of the Business mindset and trying to instill a war fighting spirit into it's ranks.  This has been a long time coming.

For example, I am an instructor (I get my hat next friday).  My flight (platoon) is the first in the squadron's history to carry and be issued M16 trainer rifles from day one fist week of training.  These rifles have the exact same parts as a real M16A2 (with the exception of the hammer on the lower reciever) and weigh/feel like the real thing.

My flight is the first in the squadron's history to be evaled on dissassembly/reassymbly of the M16A2 service rifle.  In order to graduate every last one of my trainees had to perform this AND learn how to clean the dam things.  THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE FIRST AND HAS NEVER BEEN DONE ON THIS LEVEL....ok I made my point ;)

If your friend went through ROTC field training more than likely he had a class of a bunch of cadets be taken out to a field training unit where some NCO gave them a powerpoint presentation about what they should expect should their uniforms ever get dirty.  Then they did some "neat" warrior stuff for a day and then got bussed back to the rear.  This is all changing.  

About USAF security forces....those servingin Iraq are mostly proud to be there and are VERY proud to be the "grunts of the USAF" so to speak.  SF (not special forces) does an imense amount of training to do what they do and the ones that I've met in the last 4 years make me miss the Marine Corps because they are professionals.

Offline eagl

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« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2006, 01:10:44 AM »
My $.02 to add to Guns...

Warfighting spirit - Yea.  Hell yea.  The USAF is shrinking FAST (will be the smallest in size EVER within the next year or two) and that means that every single career field has the potential to end up in combat either in their career field, or as an "augmentee" on loan to whoever needs bodies that week.  That means whenever their deployment cycle comes up, even a finance NCO may find him/herself in the middle of the desert wearing full kit wondering when his truck is going to explode (for example).

Jobs - Lots of requirements for security forces, but frankly some of the least happy airmen in the force are in SF.  The job although absolutely critical, doesn't attract the best and the brightest because the job can be mind-numbingly boring.  It's a commonly tossed around factoid that the base police blotter is usually full of SF troops getting in trouble...  That's not really a reflection of the troops as much as it is a reflection on the nature of their job.  Sit post for 10 hours and the desire to get out and raise some hell can be incredibly strong.

I'd actually suggest considering aircraft maintenance.  Those guys work their butts off but they see real tangible results from their efforts.  MX units often have very high morale (usually tied to the morale of the flying unit and spirit of their group commanders) and there is real opportunity to advance and excel.  Regardless of career field however, the real determining factor of how well they do both in the service and after they get out is how much time and effort they put into self improvement.  I've known master sergeants who retired with PhDs or multiple masters degrees, and I've known 20 year staff sergeants who retired without knowing anything except how to do the same primary job they did for the last 20 years.  Both retired after AF careers, but one was obviously better set up for life outside the USAF.

Do your job and fart around off duty, and you're not going to move up either in or out of the military.  Keep trying to improve yourself, and you'll be rewarded both in and out of the service.  As an example, yea a military maintainer WOULD need certain certifications to be able to work as a civilian maintenance tech, but they can either work to get those certifications while they're still in the military or they will quite often find that civilian employers will either sponsor them to get the required certifications or offer guaranteed jobs as soon as they get certified.  Either way, a military service record and honorable discharge is generally considered at least as good as the same number of years of experience in an equivalent civilian field, PLUS NCOs will be credited with leadership or managerial experience because almost every NCO in the military is going to get some sort of leadership experience in their everyday jobs.

As for those prior military currently doing manual labor, that's really a mystery to me.  I won't pass judgement on them because I know nothing about their situations however that is a pretty unusual fate for prior military who didn't leave the service because of some sort of problem...  Maybe they're unlucky or maybe they're not looking for the right jobs in the right places, but that is really strange.  With US unemployment numbers near historical lows right now, there are tons of companies looking for people with the exact qualifications that almost anyone with military service will have.

Maybe they need to check to see if they can still get help from the military transition assistance program, because that service offers job hunting assistance to every military member when they get out.  Maybe they didn't take advantage of the program when they left...
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Offline Reynolds

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« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2006, 04:29:32 AM »
Going on my COMPLETE lack of experioence, the best i can say is suggest he get the military to pay for him to go to college. It will be just that much more useful. If he has already gone to college, dont go in enlisted. Os are MUCH better.

Offline B@tfinkV

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« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2006, 07:40:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AquaShrimp
I appreciate your response.  But the fact of the matter is that another of my friends spent 7 years in the Air Force.  He even earned his degree afterwards.  Now hes working part-time manual labor.



was good enough for jesus....gotta be something about that manual labour :aok


i wouldnt take a £45K/year desk job over the fresh air even if you 'paid me'.
 400 yrds on my tail, right where i want you... [/size]

Offline AquaShrimp

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« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2006, 07:50:24 AM »
My friend who spent 7 years in the Air Force was involved in some sort of airbase (flightline) safety program.  He said you had to be in the Air Force for 4 years before you could get that job.

He graduated with a degree in history after he got out.  By that time, he had two daughters, and was dedicating himself to raising them.  He tried substitute teaching for a while, but didn't like that.  Then he was working with handicapped children at school, but the pay sucked (11 bucks an hour), all the while he was keeping his 3rd shift job for insurance purposes.

Hes a really good guy, he said he always wanted to be a lawyer, but just couldn't find the time to fit lawschool in while trying to raise a family and work.

Offline Sparks

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« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2006, 08:04:40 AM »
My 2cents as someone working in civil aviation maintenance....
I work with A LOT of ex-military guys and the key to how useful / employable they are rests on:-
1. What they worked on while in the miltary
2. What they did in their spare time.

Ref 1. - While it may be cool to work on missiles and fast jet weapons systems it absolutely no use to you when you get in a 737 e-bay. The most clueless people I've had to deal with are those who said "yea I had 7 years on the weapons system on F16" . You need a WIDE range of experience - engines, avionics and structures.  Nowadyas they are tightening down on the A & P requirements and you need proof of experience so no engines exp. - no Powerplant. Likewise not sheet metal work  or instruments ? - no Airframe.  And if you don't have both A & P then you aren't much use to an employer for maintenance.

Ref 2. - what Eagl said.  Do all the courses and stuff he can find.  

All I can say is the best ex USAF / NAVY tech guys I've worked with have had the widest experience and the worst are the one who did 3 / 5 / 7 on one thing and came out expecting he civil aviation industry to welcome them with open arms.  With the downsizing of the industry in the last 10 years and constant pressure on costs to stay competitive against the far east aviation maintenance is a very competitive marketplace and you have to be good to suceed.

Tell him good luck though coz fixing airplanes is neat :D

Sparks
« Last Edit: July 15, 2006, 08:07:16 AM by Sparks »

Offline Mini D

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« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2006, 10:21:08 AM »
I did 4 years as a weapons systems specialist in a release shop and another 4 in ground radio in a combat comm squadron.

The weapons system specialist job was a very good job for me. I had to learn pneumatic, hydraulic, electric and mechanical systems on many different platforms. I tore things down to a component level and inspected/repaired them. It was an excellent way to learn about interaction between various systems. I don't think any school could have taught as much about all of those subjects and troubleshooting them in the same amount of time. Here's the catch: The weapons systems guys that worked the flight lines sat on a bomb loader all day and did none of this. They made up about 80% of the field. So going into that career field would most likely be a waste.

Fields to avoid:

Cook (unless he wants to be a line cook when he gets out)
Motor Pool (unless he wants to be a cabbie when he gets out)
Munitions storage (unless he wants to work in a warehouse when he gets out)
Security Police or Law Enforcement (Unless he wants to be a security guard when he gets out)

Some of the more choice jobs:

HVAC - Air conditioner work is needed virtually everywhere. Some of the highest paid people working for our vendors are the specialists with AC and pumps. These are critical components and expose you to engine repair (turbine and diesel), generators, compressors, hydraulics, pneumatics and virtually everything else. I don't know of anyone that didn't land a job right away after getting out of the AF from this field.

The most important thing is for him to take is job seriously in the AF. Study for the tech school tests and get good scores, study his training manuals and do well on his testing once he's assigned and to actually take the time to learn the systems he's working with.

The other thing to take seriously in the Air Force is the tech manual system. This seems like overkill when you're in, but you come to understand that with the people doing the maintenance and the fact that lives are on the line, specific detail is necessary. Learn how to use them, how they're written and what they are for and you can apply that at virtually any job you get when you're out. No company does procedures better than the military... but all wish they did.

My work in ground radio was in the ANG. It was a much more laid back environment, but I did quite a bit of various work. The one thing about the ANG is that you only get a limited ammount of training due to the 1 weekend a month routine, so starting there is a bit of a pain in the ass. You really have to go into the ANG after serving a tour of active duty and have a little rank. I don't remember seeing anyone below E-4 when I was in the guard.

The Air Force is a great choice for anyone with mechanical aptitude who doesn't really know what to do. The college benifits aren't that great anymore (same as they've been, but school costs have gone up), but you can work with the CCAF to get a degree inside (highly recomended as ANY degree is helpfull). They teach you to use the right tool for the job, how to use the tools and the right way to do the job like very few other institutions can.