Technology sucks

[Tozza]

I was reading a story in the paper the other day about a 747 flying over the mediteranean.
It had a faulty artificial horizon amongs other things and to put it simply,when the pilot thought he was flying straight and level,he was in fact in a dive.All onboard were killed in the resulting crash.
This got me thinking-

Would a pair of furry dice hanging down have saved everyone by indicating the plane angle?

Just a thought-I somtimes get them

Tozza

[pugg666]

i dunno...but maybe the water rushing up to them might have been a clue?

[Tac]

depends on how steep a dive it was, but heck, anyone should feel a dive on such a massive plane.

But you're right, all planes should have a mechanical instrument to show vital info as well as the electronicals...as a backup.

[john9001]

well i guess the altimeter, air speed , and auto pilot must have been bad also , and it was at night and they were off the radar or the radio wasn't working..........or it's another urban legend

i thought they carried a mechanical artifical horizon as back up

[Creamo]

It had a faulty artificial horizon amongs other things and to put it simply,when the pilot thought he was flying straight and level,he was in fact in a dive. All onboard were killed in the resulting crash.

roadkill.

[ 09-01-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]

[CyranoAH]

You forgot to mention that the crew fell asleep... and that they were deaf... and blind.

Oh puhleeeez!

Daniel, aka Cyrano

[Thirdup]

There was a case like this in which the sensors on the fuslage had been taped over during the washing of the aircraft (the tape was never removed).  After being airborn for some time, things went terribly wrong. The pilot was disabling the warning horns as they started going off (he beleived his instruments telling him they were in a shallow climb...and determined the warnings were false). The co-pilot was insistant that they were dropping alt, but the capt ignored his concerns.  They argued about it, even after the shaker started going off.  By the time the pilot realized something was actually wrong, they impacted the water and all aboard were lost.

It could be the crash that the article you read was about (it was in the Med if I remember).  I have heard the cockpit recordings......very disturbing.  It became the basis for new practices in crew relations for many airlines (concerning rank and information exchange between crew members while in flight). It's a fairly well know and documented crash.

...just tossing that out there.

edit: the crash I'm refering to was not a 747, though

[ 09-01-2001: Message edited by: Thirdup ]

[Creamo]

My concern is media butchering even the basics of aircraft and flight. Such as "the shaker was going off" in a dive? Did they tape the AOA vanes up? No. Did they tape the static ports and Pitot tubes? Sure, but on roll out, they would notice I hope.

Usually there is some blonde reporter covering the crash saying the "ailianator" or something terrifically made up or butchered failed causing a crash.

There is back up after backup after back up on modern planes. Granted, pilots do some stupid toejam, but the way it's reported is terribly negligent. There must be way more to it than what is reported by clueless TV personel.

Don't believe everything you read.

--

[ 09-01-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]

[Thirdup]

Yep, they missed the tape on the roll out (and that was determined the cause of the crash). I don't remember the nationality of the airline, but I'm sure the report is available.

One of the warnings the pilot was getting was an overspeed warning (it was a false caused by the tape). The co-pilot assumed they should not be getting an overspeed in a shallow climb (correctly).  Basically, the co-pilot felt the were actually decending near stall and the Capt believed the overspeed. He reduced power anyway....stall..shaker....sp lash. Again, I heard the tapes on this one...it was ugly.

another edit: one of the things that made this spooky was the overspeed and the stall warnings going off at the same time (kinda does make the title of the post fit). And the fact that the Capt was mistaken and his right seat was correct is what brought about some changes in cockpit procedure when the tech stuff goes whack. In the tapes, the Sr just ignored the co-pilot...all the way into the drink. The pilot actaully continued to pull power after the shaker was going off (by that point, he had just picked the wrong warning to heed). He kicked it into full about the time they saw water.

True, can't believe everything you read.  But this is a pretty well known crash.  Like I said, it impacted the way pilot and crew interact as policy for alot of airlines.

edit: and yeah, the media are a bunch of silly twits when it comes to reporting this stuff.  The past week has shown some prime examples of cluelessness.

[ 09-01-2001: Message edited by: Thirdup ]

[Dinger]

Uhhh... No 747 has ever crashed because the pilot was watching a faulty artificial horizon.

The 757 accident you're thinking of occurred in South America on an Aeroperu 757, not the Med.  Mechanics had taped over the static ports.  The artificial horizon was one of the few basic instruments functioning and returning correct data.  The CVR transcript is here, but it's really unpleasant reading.
 http://www.avweb.com/other/peru603.html
Accident description:
 http://aviation-safety.net/database/1996/961002-0.htm

[Creamo]

I didnt know mechanics washed airplanes. Hmmmm.

Even when I do Altimeter tests, I use a 18" orange steamer off of the tape when sealing the static ports.

I do know pilots do their walk around and miss things like duct tape over their static ports...sheesh. Hense the streamer, and backup paperwork I sign for.

This CVR says volumes..

"
"500 FEET, IT'S GRABBING NOW... THESE amazinhunkS FROM MAINTENANCE MOVE EVERYTHING""

I remove the tape of the ports, and if the cleaners don't, all he has to do is check them like I do 5 days a week. Pretty simple walk around actually.

Blah, it's horrible no matter.

[ 09-01-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]