Author Topic: serious question for democrats....  (Read 1142 times)

Offline LePaul

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serious question for democrats....
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2006, 01:14:32 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by BGBMAW
Nash ..you are truly a clueless Dolt when it comes to Firearms and laws in the USA



Boy, we could make a long list with a lot of And..And...And...  :cool:

Offline Nash

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serious question for democrats....
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2006, 01:16:06 AM »
Go for it LePaul. Do it.

I dare you.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2006, 09:29:58 AM »
shuckins and charon... I understand all you are saying and realize how blue and red areas work so far as liberal socialism and conservatism but...

That still doesn't explain what I am asking...  Nash actually has it in a backwards way... even tho he can't vote here and even tho he is clueless about  guns and the democrats voting record on emm..

He makes the point that he really doesn't care about guns.  He proves my original statement that a lot of even the most socialistic democrats either like guns or simply don't care... it is a very small minority that are anti gun nuts.

Sooo... nash... not caring and all....  say you could vote (LOL) and a real dreamy socialist democrat candidate was up for pres....  He had a kennedy haircut and allmost cried over everyones pain and promised socialized medicine and a much larger welfare state....

Now say his opponent was ultra right wing so that their views offset each other to the point that it was a 50/50 race...

now... your tedkennedy diannefinestein hillary clone....  he/she is asked about gun control....  he/she takes the brady bunch viewpoint and... in a fit of stupidity... actually admits it.   The other guy says no more gun control and that's a promise.

Your dreamboat loses by a few million second amendment rights guys spurred on by the NRA and other gun rights organizations... most even democrats..

So why did he do it?   Wouldn't you be mad?   All he had to do was say that he would not work toward any new gun legeslation and that he felt that the current laws were fair and more than adequate.   But nooooo... They allways seem to not be able to hold their tongue..

It is one of the few things that they are uncomfortable lieing about it seems..

Just seems weird to me.

lazs

Offline Charon

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« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2006, 12:59:50 PM »
Guns are an easy scapegoat for social problems that require too much change and too much short term pain to really address.

1. The war on drugs is currently a closed topic. Some support the war on drugs some don't, but ther is no real discussion on "should this be the solution?" because there is a huge prison, law enforcemnt multi-billion industrial complex that makes it taboo to even discuss. So, the whole gangland thing isn't going to go away.

2. There are self sustaining segregated poverty pits that are not going away -- NIMBY and the fact that useless inner city "community leaders" will lose their power base prevent anything approaching a decentralization of the problem.

3. It's not popular to hold people responsible for their actions, by and large, among the special political interests and voting blocks in the high crime areas.

So, there's no really immediate solution to the root causes of crime. The way things have shaked out, urban politicians declare a "war on guns" to look like they are doing something. It's common for these politicians to be Democrats, but Bloomberg and Giuliani are both ardent anti gunners and Republican mayors. In rural areas, it's common for Democrats to support the 2nd. Bush currently "supports" the second but he is not active about it outside of letting things lapse and has stated he would sign an Assault Weapons ban if one were brought to his desk. IMO, I see his support more along the lines of "hunting sports" if push came to shove. Semi automatic "assault rifles" are a common issue, because:

1. Only a small percentage op people -- a niche among gun owners -- have these weapons. The media in urban areas is only familiar with firearms from TV, as is most of the voting population regardless of their political background. They either don't care, or have some negative connotation with firearms in general in many cases.

"Assault Weapons" are easy to vilify whether they live up to that rep or not. It's usual to lump in .50 rifles and high capacity magazines in the same package. It's also easy for the country club trap shooter crowd and the "...shot my deer, time to put the Remchester away until next year" crowd to not show their fellow gun owners any real support (... "they will never take my guns-- just give them what they want now and maybe they will go away).

2. It's not uncommon to have these semi automatic rifles weapons presented as machine guns as Chicago's "Top Political Hack Cop" stated in the local media: "You can empty the magazine in one or two pulls of the trigger...." Nobody covering the story knew enough to call him on this, or just didn't care." So, people think they are banning machine guns.

3. There have been rare, highly media covered events involving these weapons. They generally play a minute role in crime, and even when they are involved it's not uncommon for the media to ignore the 12 gauge shotgun that created most of the fatalities and concentrate on the "evil black rifle."

While currently a full ban on shotguns, bolt action rifles and many pistols is unlikely, there is a constant effort in these areas to go after the easy meat and incrementally tighten the screws. The same can be said nationally if it is useful, as it was for the Clinton Administration in the mid 1990s.

In general, there are only a few very activist anti- 2nd Amendment states and 2nd Amendment federal politicians. But, there are plenty that will cast a vote when the time comes for various "sensible gun laws" (drafted by the reasonable folks over at the Brady Campaign) including assault weapon bans and various purchase/gunshow/registration initiatives. And, in some states it is a very aggressive assault. IL, Calif., NJ, NY, Mass. (ironically the home of the "Minutemen") are the prime examples.

Daley, for example, with his "tobacco"style suit against gun manufacturers was essentially trying to financially ban firearms in the US. He works much harder at his State/county/City efforts where my rights could be radically different from my fellow Americans living 40 miles away. The more recent IL proposals (that one piece of "stalled regulation" you downplayed Nash) is only the most recent of what is a yearly legislative event at either the county or state level. The more recent efforts generally do not include grandfather clauses, so it's very much a 4th Amendment issue for me as well as a 2nd Amendment issue. Move out of state or deactivate/destroy in 30 or 60 days or whatever. So yeah, its a big real issue for me.

Charon
« Last Edit: July 29, 2006, 01:08:23 PM by Charon »

Offline Nash

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serious question for democrats....
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2006, 07:40:53 PM »
Lazs - I can only guess that there's a real question somewhere in your post, but I've read the entire thing a few times now and it's still not makin' a lick of sense to me. You're gonna need to reword it if you want my thoughts on it. Sorry.

I still can't figure out if you're more concerned about some perceived Democratic anti-gun activism, or the lack of it. You claim they're doing both, which is of course impossible.

Sorta like... on the one hand you want a bogey man to battle with, and on the other are sitting there bewildered that he ain't showing up to your fight.

Just strikes me that way I guess. Anyways, have another go at your post and I'll try hard to figure it out.

Offline Leslie

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« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2006, 03:10:37 AM »
The easy way to find out would be to tally the votes on gun control.  Which party voted which way.  If Democrats vote consistently for gun control over a period of time, then there's the answer.




Les

Offline Nash

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« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2006, 03:14:58 AM »
What's stopping you?

Offline Leslie

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« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2006, 03:33:09 AM »
I thought you were going for the argument Democrats (collectively) vote just as in favor of the 2nd Amendment as Republicans.  Is this correct?




Les

Offline Nash

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« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2006, 03:58:04 AM »
Uhm... back up.

It's the gun guys who are freakin' out.

I'm not "going for the argument Democrats vote" anything.

You are.

If there's such a great threat, then bring it. Show me.

I think it's much ado.

Boys and their toys. I listen to guys go right into the science of their freshly bought large screen plasma teevees. "Oh man - it's like so real that it makes you nauseous!" And right away they buy the TIVO and the Lazy Boy and they automatically know everything there is to know about the industry.

Whole entire basements get re-jigged around it.

Their DVD collection balloons, they start subscribing to magazines, and they know more about the future of teevee than an ordinary person would ever admit to.

Ya whatever.... boring.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2006, 04:00:14 AM by Nash »

Offline Leslie

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« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2006, 04:01:29 AM »
I've watched congress on tv voting on the different gun amendments.  I read the articles published in the NRA magazine.  Democrats don't have a good voting record concerning the 2nd.  

I just don't think presenting a graph or statistics would be adequate to prove my statements or to convince anyone.  I was only wondering about the misconceptions or misinformation you may have been exposed to...to state that the firearm issue is a non issue.  That's all.  

Now I'm getting out of here before Lazs gets back.:)







Les

Offline Nash

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« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2006, 05:00:33 AM »
Ahhh...

So you watched it on the teevee.

Amidst all the hoopla about guns that the folks on this BBS are dreaming up, did you also happen to notice that the Constitution of the United States of America is getting torn to shreds?

Did you happen to hear about the bloodshed in the middle east?

Are you aware of any plan to either win the war in Iraq or call it quits? Was there ever a plan?

What's with all the lies that brought the country to this?

What's FEMA looking like now as compared to last year? Any improvement? Do you even know? Hows about the levies?

Any thoughts on global warming? Or would you rather not think about that?

Oh - and if you're like everyone else, you bought yer last gun on yer grand kid's dime. Are you planning on paying him back?

How?

Where do you stand on torture? You down with that?

Can people really live on five bucks an hour? Why no increase in twenty years? Ain't that kinda.... harsh?

3 bucks a gallon for gas... How much did the government just give away to the oil companies for no reason whatsoever? How can you square that with Exxon posting a 9 billion dollar profit in a single quarter?

Where is the guy responsible for 9/11 anyways?

Shouldn't warrantless wiretapping be illegal? In a normal world?

Isn't outting a CIA operative during war a bad thing?

................ seriously. It goes on and on and on.

And you sit here and think that there's some kind of crisis over guns?

Really?

Snap out of it.

Christ.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2006, 05:02:56 AM by Nash »

Offline DiabloTX

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« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2006, 05:17:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Snap out of it.

Christ.


And have you EVER seen a concensus agreement to any issue on this board?  

You should heed your own advice and get some sleep once in a while.
"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Denmark I eat a danish for peace." - Diablo

Offline Leslie

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« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2006, 05:26:38 AM »
It is a crisis Nash, most likely exacerbated by all the stuff you mentioned.  I'm glad the NRA is on the job, because I truly think they are the only organization protecting our freedom.  I have posted about the McCain-Lautenberg bill concerning campaign reform.  What most people didn't realize is that preventing an organization from endorsing political candidates (the soft money issue) 3 months before an election amounts to violation of the 1st amendment.  The NRA fought this measure but I'm not sure the outcome...I searched for it at the time but think this outrage was passed, and not much ado about that.   Has to do with 527 organizations, or something like that.

Sometimes Nash, and I know I'm wrong, but I get the impression your posts are devised by some Republican mastermind to get people to voting conservative.




Les:D

Offline WhiteHawk

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serious question for democrats....
« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2006, 06:15:06 AM »
Unwarrented govt access to our privacy is, among other things,  gun control.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2006, 09:37:10 AM »
nash.. every year the NRA does not only a poll for all national political candidates for office on how they feel about firearms rights but... they publish the voting records on gun control issues.  

It seems that about 95% of the democrats get grades of D or F on the A-F grade system and... the voting records of the democrats show an allmost lockstep anti gun vote.  You can go to the NRA site and see this most likely.. so far as I know.. their information on voting records has never been disputed by the politicians who did the voting.

If you look at any vote on firearms at the federal level you will see that it is split right along party lines.

As for all your other issues...  take the minimum wage... That is not party line... democrats and republicans out in the public are split on the issue... Americans (unlike you) don't believe that the minimum wage was meant to live on... it was meant for high school kids to earn some money on in low skilled sevice jobs.   Saying you are for or against raising the minimum wage has very little consequence either way.    Very few care except highschool students and canadians and they don't even know the debate is going on.

fema... proving the point that giving money to the salvation army does more good than setting up any government charity.

I can take each issue you brought up one at a time if you like.

Sooo... would you be angry if the anti war socialist kennedy type you loved lost the election by millions of votes because of a "non issue" like gun control?

If I were a democrat and believed in their goal... I would either kill myself or...  write my representitive and tell her to quit worrying about guns.

lazs