Author Topic: serious question for democrats....  (Read 1138 times)

Offline lazs2

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serious question for democrats....
« on: July 27, 2006, 11:04:29 AM »
I got to know... why do they do it?   I have been told that blaming guns for all the socialist welfare programs of the liberal democrats is the reason... that the underclass becomeing more violent and the failure of welfare are too heavy to admit to failure on without a scapegoat so... guns are blamed..

guns causing the failure of all the liberals socialist welfare programs seems too pat to me...

It seems that most democrats in power have a genuine hate for the individual right to be armed. an emotional thing that trancends political excuse making.

I just never understood it. I have talked to rank and file democrats that were "men" who feared and hated guns but most either like em or have no real opinion other than we should be allowed to own and carry em... most say they would buy one and hide it if they were banned... weird.

Why do the democrats in power allways gloat and plead and make such fools of themselves over the second? Why is it so important that they will shoot themselves in the foot (so to speak) over the issue time after time?

It is an issue that marginalizes their party to tens of millions. If they came out with a more second amendment friendly policy and voting record... they could pick up tens of millions of votes.

It would seem to me that the democrats would lose very few votes by embracing the second and voting in congress accordingly and... gain a bunch

It seems everytime a democrat.. especially one running for national office... is asked about gun control he pretends to be for strong gun rights and then votes for strong anti second amendment bills.... if it were just pandering and he had no agenda... why not just vote for strong second rights like he claimed he was for?

I am serious.. why do they fall on their sword so happily on this issue?

lazs

Offline john9001

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« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2006, 02:04:31 PM »
it's a phobia, the fear of weapons, i can't remember the Latin word for it.

Offline Nifty

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« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2006, 02:18:02 PM »
They want guns out of our hands so when they turn this country into a full fledge socialist/communist society, we can't revolt.

:D

(obviously not a serious answer)
proud member of the 332nd Flying Mongrels, noses in the wind since 1997.

Offline Nash

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« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2006, 02:47:06 PM »
Yawn...

The gun debate has been dead for years. The NRA won, and the Democrats realize it.

The gun debaters here, fresh off of reading some new outrage that the NRA supplies them remind me of those Japanese stuck on some island who don't realize the war is over.

Offline 68Hawk

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« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2006, 02:50:11 PM »
its simply part of the overall plan.....

The left-right paradigm is completely false, and they want you to belive it so you think it's democrats that are out to get you.  

The truth is, both parties are controlled and this is only one piece that they've gotten the democrats to play.  Conservatives would imediatly alienate their electoral base if they tried this, but they can convince the democratic party to push this legislation through.  

Many in the democratic party are too stupid to realize that disaming the American people is one of the most dangerous things that we can do.  They are only worried about their own 'security' and cowardly give up their responsibilites as citizens in the name of safety.

Gun control is part of the plan.  If they take our guns, they take our freedom to rebel against a government that has sold us out.  (Remember the founding fathers admonished us that it is the right of every citizen, to rebel against a govenrment that does not represent or protect you)

Don't be fooled, there are many on the right who are participating in this same overall plan to control your  minds.  They just work on other aspects of it.  

The sooner we all forget about this fake left-right nonsense, the sooner we can all get these would be Stalins out of power.
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Offline Charon

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« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2006, 03:02:02 PM »
In the Chicago area, most are unfamiliar with firearms, don't really care all that much about them either way and don't research the issue at all. If a political police chief and the Tribune says they are bad, then they are bad. FWIW it's not only the Democrats in the Chicago area but the suburban Republicans who are RINOs (Republican's in Name Only) and their Republican constituents who are soccer moms and corporate middle managers etc. who have no interest in the 2nd. Similarly, downstate Democrats are pro 2nd.

In the city... well, Daley really isn't a Democrat per say. He is a dictator (with the usual bureaucratic corruption) and the Democratic machine is a tool. I was in San Fran recently and had a discussion on Daley as a true liberal. No real comparison. Take the homeless -- in SF they seem to be accommodated. In Chicago they are kept out of sight and know to keep a low profile or those friendly boys in blue will take care of them. And, just look at how his father treated the hippies in 67, and how well behaved those modern G8 summit protesters were when in town compared to Seattle :) He was ready to bash heads at the drop of a hat. He also does little more than lip service to support the poor neighborhoods, etc. spending big resources in the downtown area and putting most of his police force in the upscale neighborhoods.

Still he is strongly anti 2nd. He likely has a personal opinion that "guns are bad," and as an absolute ruler his opinion becomes law. I also feel that he clearly knows there is little he can do to eliminate crime in the poor neighborhoods, could care less regardless, and gun restrictions make a good scapegoat to appear to be doing something. As noted, even the "conservative" Tribune parrots directly materials from the Brady Campaign in their editorials, and seldom features a pro 2nd opinion in actual news articles while citing any number of anti-2nd opinions, sometimes from groups you've never even heard of before. They have never done any detailed journalism on issues firearm issues using statisctics to confirm any statement made by Brady or any local politician.

It doesn't help here that the hunter and trap shooter crowd only care about their slice of the 2nd, and leave collectors and other shooters out in the cold when the quarterly magazine/assault weapon ban rolls around. The politicians use that "hunting/sporting" (not counting high power shooting as the sport it is) deal to make them feel safe that the bad du jour will keep THEIR guns safe.

Charon

Offline Charon

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« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2006, 03:11:52 PM »
Quote
The gun debaters here, fresh off of reading some new outrage that the NRA supplies them remind me of those Japanese stuck on some island who don't realize the war is over.


You couldn't be more clueless on this issue Nash. I have to fight serious regulation several times each year on this issue with calls and letters, etc. It is a continuous fight in the state of ILL. The threat for me is the loss of personal property to the tune of hundreds of dollars in addition to some clown in Chicago forcing his beliefs on my rights. Property that is legal in virtually every state in the country including California. It is a real threat, a few vote margin type of threat. The oppostion outright lies in many cases and the local media does not call these officials on any of these lies either through ignorance or sympathy.

By lying, I mean factual, balck and white misrepresentations of fact, not some gray area spin.

Charon
« Last Edit: July 27, 2006, 03:16:37 PM by Charon »

Offline BGBMAW

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serious question for democrats....
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2006, 04:18:15 PM »
Nash ..you are truly a clueless Dolt when it comes to Firearms and laws in the USA

They are trying to make handguns have ..serial numbers microetched on firing pins to press on to the primer when fired...


They want you to register to buy ammo..

They want to limit the amount of realoading components you buy

They are trying to outlaw any semi-auto large caliber rifles ...

Its a constant battle....


Your alot better at asking questions...then answering them

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2006, 08:53:32 AM »
well... nash is of course wrong but...

Nash... if you think you are right.. How do you explain what I have said about so many democrat leaders and politicians having such an anti gun stance?   They know that it will hurt em in the polls and that milions and millions and millions of Americans feel strongly about gun rights while many millions more favor gun rights when pressed.

Why do they do it?

charon... I do see your point... A local government type who hates guns on a personal level and feels very secure otherwise in winning every election can be as dictatorial as he wishes... he can afford it.   But... many democrats end up being in close races where their anti second amendment voting record comes back to bite em in the butt.

Why do they do it?

I was seriously hoping some American democrats could explain it to me.

lazs

Offline Sixpence

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« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2006, 09:14:09 AM »
Ok Lazs, now a serious question for you, since the republicans have had control of both congress and the white house, do you feel our right to bear arms(and other rights) have been weakened or strengthened?
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2006, 09:22:47 AM »
Neither.  I feel that if Demo's take over the presidency, they are going to go ape **** on guns.

And that's when the real revolut... err fun begins.  :D
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Nash

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« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2006, 10:58:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
well... nash is of course wrong but...

Nash... if you think you are right.. How do you explain what I have said about so many democrat leaders and politicians having such an anti gun stance?


Well, thars a pretty big election coming up in a few months. Which Democrats are running on an anti-gun platform? Which Democrats even mention it? Where is the debate?

You like to say that scientists dream up scary things like global warming in order to get continued government funding. Hows about the NRA? What would happen to them if the bogey man went away?

Offline Charon

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« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2006, 11:18:05 AM »
Quote
Well, thars a pretty big election coming up in a few months. Which Democrats are running on an anti-gun platform? Which Democrats even mention it? Where is the debate?


Well, the Democratic Gov. of the State of Ill has been running attack ads against his republican opponent for several month's now on gun issues. I think it was the first ad in the entire campaign (it's still to early for her to run ads, he has a lot of $$$ and launced a very early media campaign). And there is a piece of pending legislation that barely failed a year ago that has been resurrected but is currently on hold waiting for the outcome of the state elections.

Charon

Offline Nash

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« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2006, 11:27:08 AM »
Okay, there's one.... I guess.

And there was some legislation on something a year ago which failed and is now on hold?

What else are we lookin' at here?

Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2006, 01:05:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Okay, there's one.... I guess.

And there was some legislation on something a year ago which failed and is now on hold?

What else are we lookin' at here?



The dems in San Francisco got guns banned there, but the courts shot it down. Do a search on this board for more details.



The NRA doesn't need to make up the threat Nash, just wait you we will be able to give you a ton of examples as soon as the campaigns get going.


Hell I hear anti gun radio adds all the time now, granted I don’t know who is paying for them, but I would put money on them being dems.