Author Topic: Does anyone remember this incident?  (Read 936 times)

Offline Rolex

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Does anyone remember this incident?
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2006, 10:57:22 AM »
I never heard or read of any radio challenges, either. But, I said that it didn't respond to challenges by radio.

Liberty was challenged for identification by signal from the torpedo boats, but both parties' views were obscured by smoke. That would be the time to use the radio to respond.

NSA piece was an interesting read. I think it confirms that it was a series of mistakes and not planned or intentional. You don't think it was intentional, do you?

(Sorry about other post - hit a wrong key somewhere in the middle of typing it. Even the link you posted said that the torpedo boats challenged the Liberty.

And, once again, I said it did not respond to challenges by radio, meaning it did not respond by radio to challenges, not that the challenges were made by radio.)
« Last Edit: July 30, 2006, 11:09:57 AM by Rolex »

Offline Gunslinger

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Does anyone remember this incident?
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2006, 11:00:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rolex
I never read or heard of any radio challenges either. But, I said it did not respond to challenges by radio.

Liberty was challenged by the torpedo boats but the smoke from the initial aircraft attacks obscured the signaling by both parties. I'm


also from what I've read there was a miscommunication between the captain and crew and the liberty opened up on the torpedo boats.  

from wikipedia:

Quote

About twenty minutes after the aircraft attack, the ship was approached by three torpedo boats bearing Israeli flags and identification signs. Initially, McGonagle, who perceived that the torpedo boats "were approaching the ship in a torpedo launch attitude,"[1] ordered a machine gun to engage the boats. After recognizing the Israeli standard and seeing apparent Morse code signalling attempts by one of the boats (but being unable to see what was being sent, due to the smoke of the fire started by the earlier aircraft attack), McGonagle gave the order to cease fire. This order was apparently misunderstood in the confusion, and two heavy machine guns opened fire. Subsequently, the Israeli boats responded with fire and launched at least two torpedoes at Liberty (five according to the 1982 IDF History Department report). One hit Liberty on the starboard side forward of the superstructure, creating a large hole in what had been a former cargo hold converted to the ships research spaces, causing the majority of the casualties in the incident. The torpedo boats approached Liberty and strafed crewmen (including damage control parties and sailors preparing life rafts for launch) on deck.


I am by no means and expert nore claim to be.  The events are somewhat confusing but I have yet to read a substantial argument as to why or if the Isralis attacked it on purpose.  I don't see the motive behind it either.  Again i'm not saying that they did or didn't cause I don't know, I just see alot of speculation in one camp and no real evidence or proof.

Offline Toad

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Does anyone remember this incident?
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2006, 11:06:39 AM »
Ah, I think what you are saying is that it was procedure not to respond to challenges by radio? I'm sure that's true; recon aviation was the same way.

I missed the attempted communication by the boats; I'll have to reread that.
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2006, 11:13:12 AM »
Yes, there it is.

Still doesn't explain the air attack though. There are the reports of the traffic between the pilot(s) and HQ id'ing Liberty as American with these reports being ignored.

I think I'll go with Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Thomas Moorer. It's very hard for me to accept that this was a simple mistake.
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Offline Rolex

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Does anyone remember this incident?
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2006, 11:31:11 AM »
I still think it was not intentional. Liberty was put into a dangerous location in the middle of a real war and fast moving events with only a few 50 cal. machines guns. I think that overshadows any second guessing about the actions of the captain and crew. I don't blame them.

The initial air attack was cavalier and started the escalating chain of mistakes.

Offline Toad

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Does anyone remember this incident?
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2006, 11:34:10 AM »
Had Liberty been more heavily armed it probably would only have served to convince the Israelis that she was the one shelling the troops ashore.

Generally recon is an unarmed occupation. Don't know why but that's pretty much how it was throughout the Cold War and it still continues.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!