Author Topic: MD10 / 11 - not good in crosswind ?? (Read 437 times)

Sparks · « **on:** July 30, 2006, 03:34:17 PM »

Just reading the "Bad week for Fedex" post and did some searching. I've only worked on KDC10 so don't know much about them but they don't seem to like heavy crosswind landings?

Fedex this week was left main gear collapse, Fedex had another that was right main gear collapse and two other with airlines which resulted in wings breaking off

all attributed to bad crosswind landings

747 has monster crosswind capability - no wonder Boeing ditched the MD ...

Dinger · « **Reply #1 on:** July 30, 2006, 04:34:54 PM »

The "Mad Dog" is notorious for not liking hard landings of any sort. DC-10 is bad; MD-11 is worse. On the fair side of things, only 2 MD-11s (out of 200 made) have "turtled" as a result of landing hard with excessive (>24 kts) crosswind component.

Can't say I ever really liked the design, but on T/O its engine sound is unmistakable. I spend a summer under Zaventem and that's the only one of the bunch I can still identify by sound.

As someone else will no doubtedly say, you fly it within parameters, and it's fine. But you go outside them, and the MD-11 is almost as bad as an Airbus.

Sparks · « **Reply #2 on:** July 30, 2006, 06:31:35 PM »

Interesting Dinger, glad I didn't know that the few times I've flown on one. When you watch tose old videos of 747's getting it wrong at the old Hong Kong airport I'm amazed they didn't plant one there.

Also read some consider the tailplane too small. Toad would be the man to answer but I suppose with reduced pitch authority at low speed it's easy to get the attitude wrong during a sporting crosswind landing ?

Zaventum eh - I spent a few weeks there myself - connie-ing at the airport (desparately trying to remember the company name). - Belgian AF C130 mods , ugggghhhhh.

Toad · « **Reply #3 on:** July 30, 2006, 06:56:19 PM »

I never flew any MD stuff at all.

I do know that our MD-11 pilots said it was a squirrel in the flare unless the CG was right on the money. The MD-11 has a smaller elevator than the DC-10 and a longer moment arm. Not really an improvement there, IMO.

Fishu · « **Reply #4 on:** July 31, 2006, 02:24:15 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dinger
The "Mad Dog" is notorious for not liking hard landings of any sort. DC-10 is bad; MD-11 is worse. On the fair side of things, only 2 MD-11s (out of 200 made) have "turtled" as a result of landing hard with excessive (>24 kts) crosswind component.

As someone else will no doubtedly say, you fly it within parameters, and it's fine. But you go outside them, and the MD-11 is almost as bad as an Airbus.

The Mad Dog is the MD80 series, not the 10 or 11.

I haven't heard anything bad of DC-10 or MD-11 over here in Finland. Finnair used DC-10's, but changed to MD-11's in the 90's and they acquired a seventh MD-11 this year. Finnair now has the first and the last produced MD-11. There'll be no more MD-11's for Finnair though, it's hard to obtain those planes these days, due to it's popularity as a cargo plane and poor condition of the rest - They were supposed to have an eight MD-11 too, but the other plane in South America was in such a bad condition that they decided to not obtain it.

The majority of Finnair's fleet consists of A32S's. Now they've also acquired Embraer 170's and soon also 190's. In the place of the eight MD-11 they have an A340, with 3 more to come. MD-11's and A340's will be operated until A350 comes out.

There isn't enough MD-11's around as many would still like to buy one.

Rolex · « **Reply #5 on:** July 31, 2006, 08:19:41 PM »

How not to land an MD80:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6402767882357542179

Fishu · « **Reply #6 on:** August 01, 2006, 01:41:44 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rolex
How not to land an MD80:

AFAIK that's a video from the factory tests.

Toad · « **Reply #7 on:** August 01, 2006, 06:41:59 AM »

Is that the one where they broke the tail off it on landing?

Fishu · « **Reply #8 on:** August 01, 2006, 07:09:52 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
Is that the one where they broke the tail off it on landing?

yes

VWE · « **Reply #9 on:** August 01, 2006, 07:57:10 AM »

Try flying the MD11 over 250 kts hands on... you'll porpise through the air.

Debonair · « **Reply #10 on:** August 01, 2006, 04:46:52 PM »

and under that, you'll dutch roll

Dinger · « **Reply #11 on:** August 01, 2006, 04:48:29 PM »

...and almost as bad as a jungle jet.

Charon · « **Reply #12 on:** August 01, 2006, 05:31:43 PM »

Hey Fishu,

What's with those Finnair flight attendants wearing those sexy black leather gloves?

Charon

Toad · « **Reply #13 on:** August 01, 2006, 05:35:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by VWE
Try flying the MD11 over 250 kts hands on... you'll porpise through the air.

I've heard that one from our pilots as well.