Author Topic: Story of Joseph Schultz (Read 897 times)

Yeager · « **Reply #15 on:** August 02, 2006, 02:02:23 PM »

jeeze wtg tardlickers. take a decent thread and turn it into a crime scene.

Masherbrum · « **Reply #16 on:** August 02, 2006, 02:06:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Yeager
jeeze wtg tardlickers. take a decent thread and turn it into a crime scene.

Agree.

J_A_B · « **Reply #17 on:** August 02, 2006, 02:46:11 PM »

"Wow. Why do you even post?"

Yes, clearly only people who agree with the prevailing sentiments should have posting privs

Or, perhaps the guy just got himself killed for no reason, and I call a spade a spade. It's a shame he didn't shoot the officer who gave the order.

J_A_B

WhiteHawk · « **Reply #18 on:** August 02, 2006, 02:48:31 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by J_A_B
So...he didn't save anyone, got himself killed, and was basically forgotten.

That's heroic in a way, but it's also stupid and pointless.

J_A_B

All depends on ones religious convictions. Some religions actually frown on murdering unarmed civilians.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 02, 2006, 02:53:49 PM »

There is a similar story mentioned in Simon Wiesenthal's book "The Murderers Among Us"

It refers to a German Soldier by the name of Anton Schmid a 42 year old NCO who was decided it was his Christian duty to help the Jews who were being rounded up and killed in the Wilna Ghetto. He would smuggle in food and milk for the babies. Ultimately he was caught trying to help 5 Jews get out of Wilna. He was court martialed and sentenced to death. This was in 1942.

In one of the last letters to his wife he said: "Everybody must die someday. One can die as an executioner or as a helper. I want to die as a helper."

Masherbrum · « **Reply #20 on:** August 02, 2006, 02:58:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Guppy35
There is a similar story mentioned in Simon Wiesenthal's book "The Murderers Among Us"

It refers to a German Soldier by the name of Anton Schmid a 42 year old NCO who was decided it was his Christian duty to help the Jews who were being rounded up and killed in the Wilna Ghetto. He would smuggle in food and milk for the babies. Ultimately he was caught trying to help 5 Jews get out of Wilna. He was court martialed and sentenced to death. This was in 1942.

In one of the last letters to his wife he said: "Everybody must die someday. One can die as an executioner or as a helper. I want to die as a helper."

J_A_B couldn't understand this.

J_A_B · « **Reply #21 on:** August 02, 2006, 03:13:18 PM »

I understand that the details of the case Dan posted are signifigantly different than those of Mr. Schultz as described in the initial post in this thread. In the case of Dan's example, the soldier was making a positive effort to help the Jews. In Schultz's case, he just said "I don't want to do this, shoot me", which is a waste of an individual with strong and proper convictions.

I wasn't advocating that the Schultz guy should have followed his orders and shot the civilians; nothing I said indicated that and anyone who got that idea needs to stop jumping to false conclusions.

"Nobody was saved becasue of his actions. He didnt change anything. "

That's from the first post in this thread. If you're going to give your life for a cause, you should make some effort to get something in return for that expense. A life wasted for a good cause is still a life wasted.

J_A_B

Skuzzy · « **Reply #22 on:** August 02, 2006, 03:25:55 PM »

You are wrong JAB.

What this one German soldier did was show the world not all Germans would willingly participate in mass murder. It's one of the positive aspects of the Germans of the day.

There are people who only know about the mass murders committed against the Jews. Those who think all Germans are animals and should be hated with all thier being. Those people need to know the actions of this one individual. It might just sway someone who hates all Germans into understanding there were those who did not agree with the policies of the day and were willing to give up thier life to protest it.

Just becuse you think it means nothing and he acomplished nothing does not mean he did. It just means you cannot see what he accomplished.

The mere fact we are discussing it today says he did accomplish something good.

SMIDSY · « **Reply #23 on:** August 02, 2006, 03:27:45 PM »

true, JAB, he didnt save anyone. but he set a moral example and died with a clean concience. he had a choice that was black and white: he could kill the civilians or be killed himself along side those he was to shoot, he chose the latter and i admire him for that.

Masherbrum · « **Reply #24 on:** August 02, 2006, 03:35:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Skuzzy
You are wrong JAB.

What this one German soldier did was show the world not all Germans would willingly participate in mass murder. It's one of the positive aspects of the Germans of the day.

There are people who only know about the mass murders committed against the Jews. Those who think all Germans are animals and should be hated with all thier being. Those people need to know the actions of this one individual. It might just sway someone who hates all Germans into understanding there were those who did not agree with the policies of the day and were willing to give up thier life to protest it.

Just becuse you think it means nothing and he acomplished nothing does not mean he did. It just means you cannot see what he accomplished.

The mere fact we are discussing it today says he did accomplish something good.

Someone else got it. Damn fine post sir!

J_A_B · « **Reply #25 on:** August 02, 2006, 03:41:05 PM »

"Those who think all Germans are animals and should be hated with all thier being."

The people who harbor such convictions aren't typically the sort of people who are worried about truth or real examples.

His heart was in the right place, but I think Mr. Schultz could have got a lot more for the price he paid. That's a more "PC" way of wording how I feel.

J_A_B

Gh0stFT · « **Reply #26 on:** August 02, 2006, 06:16:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by J_A_B
"ThoHis heart was in the right place, but I think Mr. Schultz could have got a lot more for the price he paid. That's a more "PC" way of wording how I feel.

J_A_B

got a lot more what?
Killing the NCO before he got shoot?
I think Jospeh Schultz was a good Soldier, without a doubt he would
fight for his Country. Something or everything changed when he should shoot
blindfolded civilians.
He choosed the way to stay clear in front of his creator, and
not to be a Killer. From his point of view the NCO was not a murder,
maybe a good friend, just someone who finished instructions from above.

We all are children of god, but i'm sure people like him have a special
place there...

SMIDSY · « **Reply #27 on:** August 02, 2006, 06:33:22 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by J_A_B

His heart was in the right place, but I think Mr. Schultz could have got a lot more for the price he paid. That's a more "PC" way of wording how I feel.

J_A_B

what would you have him do? shoot his friends?

Masherbrum · « **Reply #28 on:** August 02, 2006, 08:33:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SMIDSY
what would you have him do? shoot his friends?

J_A_B would have gone with the status quo if he were in Schultz's boots.

john9001 · « **Reply #29 on:** August 02, 2006, 08:39:18 PM »

well he could have just shot and missed.

the way i heard the story was he did not drop his gun and say "shoot me too' , he refused to shoot and they took away his gun and ordered him against the wall.