F4U-1 White 7, Daphne 'C'

[Saxman]

Ok, this time I've got a REAL skin for y'all.

F4U-1 BuNo 02350, July 1943, White 7 Daphne 'C' flown by Capt. James N Cupp



My reference pic. I'll have some more notes on this below, but first here's the skin thus far:







The only view I'm at all sure about the appearance of is the left side, because of the pic. When running a search on this plane on Yahoo I didn't get a whole lot, mostly some miniature die-cast toy, (suspect for accuracy) an old Aero Master decal sheet (no images of the plane, just the sheet itself, although that's where I got the BuNo, and supported by a couple other sites about the diecast toy) and a model kit done in those markings.

The model kit shows the painted-over "13" on both sides of the fuselage. The roundels on the kit are on both upper wing surfaces, which IS the case with many early Corsairs in the blue-gray/gray colors. However there were some minor errors on the model which leaves the rest of it suspect.

The die-cast toy also has roundels on both upper wing surfaces, but doesn't show the faded 13 at all. Neither the die-cast toy or model showed the nose art on the aircraft's starboard side, and neither had images of the underside.

I found another kit with the Daphne 'C' nose art, however this aircraft had an entirely DIFFERENT fuselage number (15). It had the nose art on both port and starboard sides of the cowl.

So, as of right now the only thing I'm certain about is the left side of the aircraft. If anyone knows of some other images of this aircraft: specifically the starboard side, top and bottom. I also would appreciate a more detailed look at the nose art so I can try to match a font. (which btw, I AM aware my 7 isn't quite right I used AmarilloUSAF, but I'll probably have to hand-draw that). Finally, I used Slaker's VMF-213 skin as reference for the colors. Does anyone knows of an RGB setting that is a better match for the camoflage pattern?

Lastly, I think there may be an interesting story behind the faded 13 on the fuselage sides and cowl (I still need to tweak mine, because the cowl number isn't showing up). When trying a search on Yahoo by the BuNo, I didn't come up with White 7 at all. Instead, all the responses were about Ken Walsh's White 13 from VMF-124 which ALSO was listed under the same BuNo. Anyone know of a site where you can research these old BuNos? I'd love to be able to verify that Walsh's plane was re-numbered and re-assigned.

EDIT: I felt the roundels were WAY too bright, so I've already changed them to a darker color.

[B@tfinkV]

looks real nice sax


on the detailed top pic it shows the nose cowling to be slightly lighter blue, is this a light effect or a merging from the dark navy blue to a lighter blue?


almost looks as if they have blended a couple of shades of blue over the whole scheme infact.


edit: i geuss its just the lighting.

[Stoney74]

Hey Sax,

According to my Osprey Corsair Aces of WWII book, it alludes to the fact that the same aircraft was flown by Walsh and Cupp.  So, I always assumed that was why the number was painted over, since Walsh liked to fly the 13.

I think the blue is a bit deeper than what I've been able to find in pictures and artwork, but Kevin or Krusty are the experts on that stuff.  I've been trying to find a RGB cross reference for all of the ANA colors but haven't yet.  There's a website that uses the FS or federal standard colors and gives you a picture reference, but it conflicts with other websites.  So, don't know which is closer.  Kind of strange, but the paint schemes for Wildcats and Corsairs used the same colors in early '43, but the two Osprey books have two different shades of blue for each aircraft.  The blue in the Wildcat book is closer to your shade, while the Corsair paint looks almost powder blue.

[Saxman]

That's cool about the Walsh repaint. When I was looking at Corsairs to do I saw the painted-over 13 and thought "I wonder..." and that's why I HAD to do this bird. Nice to hear that confirmed.

I might just use the blue in that reference pic for now, as that looks closer to most of the artwork I've ever seen. I've got it all on different layers so it's pretty easy for me to go back in and change it.

[Saxman]

Ok, here's some updated screens. Adjusted the camoflage color, (I like this one a LOT better, and I think it's closer to the actual color) redid the "7" to fit the one in the reference pic, recolored the roundels to something closer to the right shade of blue, and also added roundels to the upper and lower surfaces of both wings (most of what I can find indicates Daphne 'C' used roundels on both surfaces of both wings).

There's definately a glitch on the cowl, where it looks like the very front half is actually mirrored. I'm gonna have to fiddle with the skin to fix the cowl number. I still don't have the nose art, and have not yet added the numbers to the landing gear doors, as I'm still not sure if A) Daphne had them, or B) WHICH number would be there, or how it would look (7? 13? 7 painted on top of a partially blanked 13?)

[Knite]

Hi Sax,

A couple of things you may want to try to see if it helps how the skin looks...

A) blur the line between the grey and blue a little. If you are using Photoshop, the smudge tool would be great for this, just move things very subtly. This gives it less "precise" look and more of a hand painted one.

B) look at the way the Illustration is behind the engine. That's a good example of something to try to make a 2d picture look more 3d. Darken the shadow right behind where the engine cowling meets the fuselage and fade it.

C) Move the number and Roundel up a little on the fuselage. It seems to be hanging a little low.

I made a mock up of what I mean so you can see, and I have my mock up right below your original below...


ORIGINAL



ALTERED

[Stoney74]

I like the color a lot better.  Looks really good with the crap all over it to--nice and dirty blue.

I'm split on Knite's changes:  roundel and number position is better, no question.  The cowl flaps on the other hand would be closed in flight.  I like the darker line to show the back edge of the flaps, but I don't like the spaces in between the individual flaps.  It looks cool, but they look like they're opened a hair.

[Saxman]

The position of the number and roundel is based on the panel lines in the reference pic. If someone can find me a photo of the real bird that places the markings that high I'll change it, but otherwise it's staying per the pic (incidentally, I built a birdcage Corsair model a couple years ago, and the roundel position was more or less the same).

I'll look at darkening the line behind the cowl.

Btw, the dirt is from the F4U-1 template at ah-skins. Although I ran into a problem in that the weathering layer for the wings had the squadron markings in it. Took a little creative copy-and pasting to fix.

EDITED WITH ANOTHER UPDATE:

Added more of a shadow behind the cowling. Also, there's a bit of a stain running back along the fuselage from one of the upper cowl flaps which I also added. Once again since I don't have any information on the aircraft's starboard side I mirrored it on both sides.

[Saxman]

I am now tentatively considering Daphne C finished. I've added numbers to the main landing gear doors based on an AeroMaster decal sheet, and done my best to draw the nose art from the image I had. I'll go back and update if I get any other references that show I need to make corrections.

[Knite]

Heya Sax,

the nose stands out a lot more IMO. =)

I'm a little mixed on what I was trying to explain as far as the suggestions... can't quite place what I mean...

I think I figured it out though. Look at the illustration itself.

Let's start with the Roundel.
I believe you might have the right size. But it's a hair low on your skin (and high on mine). The illustration shows the panel line through the roundel at almost 1/3rd down the top point. Your skin has it just barely cutting the top point off, and mine is 2/3rds down the top point. If you moved it up a smidgen (not nearly as far as I did), i think it would also help move the roundel from the curvature of the tail some and make it look more "circular" from the side.

The number 7
Again, I believe I was somewhat wrong in raising it, but feel it's too low. If we look at your illustration, it shows the #7 to have the end points meet at approximately 1/4th and 3/4ths between the horizontal panel line above, and the white paint below. Your skin has it at about 1/3rd and 3/4ths, meaning it's just a hair too small. If you "tallen" it some, it'll look higher, but not be any higher, just a little bigger. And if you compare it to the 13 on the illustration, the 7 IS noticably bigger.

The 13
If you look at the illustration again, the top of the 13 is in line with the top of the 2nd kill mark, but on your skin it's closer to the bottom of the 2nd kill mark.

However, that's all nitpicking. I like it, and love the new staining. =)

I'll shut up and stop annoying you. ;-) It's this sort of thinking of mine that drives me nuts and takes me a year to make a skin. *sigh*

[Saxman]

I'll look into it when I get home. I may resize the reference pic to fit it over the skin. Certainly there\'s going to be some distortion just due to inaccuracies of the model. At the same time I\'ll probably look at modifying her into Ken Walsh\'s White 13.

Edited:

Ok, I've taken a look at it, including pasting the reference painting into the skin, and here are my findings:

Both the 13 under the canopy on the cowl are just about the right size and position in relation to the panel lines, as is the nose art, so no changes there. The killboard was slightly higher and further forward than it should have been, so it's been corrected.

The aft section is a LITTLE trickier, owing to a few inaccuracies in the panel detailing (notably, some panels just aren't the right size). Regardless, the roundel position IS CORRECT, both per the panel lines, (or as right as it can be made) and the actual position on the aircraft itself, so that will not be moved. I HAVE slightly enlarged the #7, but am keeping its position as it's as close as I can get to where it should be in relation to both roundel and panelling, so it too will not be moved.

At this point, Daphne 'C' is now considered finished unless some picture of the upper, lower, or starboard sides indicate some change in insignia needs to be made (nose are on both sides, roundels on only one upper and lower wing, etc). The changes were minute, so no updated pics.

[Saxman]

Meh. Frelling edit time-limit.

ANYway. Seems that modifying Daphne into White 13 was easier than I expected. The same site I found that reference pic on had one of her in Walsh's markings from a month later. Only differences are Cupp's 7 is gone and painted over by Walsh's 13, two more kills are added, the nose art is gone, and it appears that she now only has roundels on one upper and lower surface. It also seems that the staining along the side of the fuselage had been cleaned up a bit.

So here we go, Kenneth Walsh's "White 13," VMF-124, August 1943



I'm not QUITE done. I think I cut off part of one fuselage roundel (visible in the pic) while erasing Cupp's number. Also, the pic of White 13 shows the aircraft with the Navy, BuNo, and F4U-1 markings on the tail. The pic I have for Daphne doesn't, so I'm not sure if that was an error of omission, (or inclusion) or if those markings weren't displayed when he had the plane.

Anyone have a guess?

[Stoney74]

Well, Walsh got shot down like 3 times in 124's tour, and he flew a "13"most of the time, so it could be its a different plane (Buno)in the two pics in the book, even though the numbering is the same.  The book does say they flew the same plane some.  A lot of the Buno's got mixed up at the Canal, as squadrons rotated, swapped planes, and borrowed from each other.  Walsh and Cupp were both at Henderson for about 3 months, and there's a good chance VMF-124 and -213 shared planes.

I agree on the roundel position Sax.  I think maybe the model throws the look off, but it looks like the right position.

One more thing--the leading edge of the vertical stab on both skins needs to get recolored.  Its hidden on the sheet with the engine, down in the lower left corner I believe...

Also, one thing I'm planning on adding to my F4U skins is the tape they used to put over the gun ports to keep the weapons clean during taxi and takeoff.  Early on, they used 4 sets of tape on each wing to make the Japanese think it was 8X.50cal instead of 6.  Just  an uber detail if its possible.

[Edit]--you might want to ding up the paint a bit, especially around the oil coolers on the leading edge, and around the bottom front of the cowling.  Most of the pics I have, the hogs look pretty beat up around those areas...

[Saxman]

Unfortunately, my weathering skills are largely limited to whatever I can do with an airbrush effect. That, and I'm lazy.

Seeing as the Cupp and Walsh pics I used were referenced as being only a month apart (July and August, respectively, with no specifics on the date) and BOTH images show the blanked-out 13 on the cowl (which neither Cupp's White 7 or Walsh's White 13 carried a number in that position) I think it's a fairly safe bet it's the same aircraft. So I've added the BuNo to both skins.

As for the vertical stab, I don't think it's that the color is wrong due to placement on the map. I've seen this shadow effect with other models before, and I think it has more to do with vertex order on the mesh (see the top view below. From that angle, the color of the vert stab leading edge correctly matches the rest of it).

And finally, another peek for the skin-starved Hog lovers out there:

Lt. Edwin Olander's "Marine's Dream" of VMF-214, c. Dec 1943







Couple oddities about this bird:

First is the unusually high demarcation line between the upper and lower camoflage color and the gray, rather than blue, vertical stab. In addition, for some reason at this particular time White 576 used the gray all the way out to the wingtips on the undersides, rather than changing to blue on the outer part of the wing as in most Corsairs in these colors (yes, I DO realize part of one aileron on the underside is blue. You can blame the way the wing is mapped for that).

Secondly is the roundels. The sides and upper wing surface use the early "star and bars" without the colored border. However the underside retains the plain roundel without bars.

[Stoney74]

Did they put nose art on both sides of the plane???  I thought it was usually just on one side.