1969 Z-11 Camaro Pace Car on eBay

[DiabloTX]

As some of you guys know, I am a bit of a Camaro nut.  Especially the '69 Camaro.  But this one I can't explain.  It's one of the '69 Pace Car edition Z-11 convertible.  This particular car is in really, really bad shape.  In fact the seller even lists it as "not restorable".  Yet, as of now the high bid on it is over $7000.00 on eBay.  Here's pic of it:



I understand the collectability of the '69 pace cars but this one is off the hook.

Seller:
Up for bid is a true Z11, number matching , 1969 Indy Pace Car Convertible, 350cid Th350 Automatic. This car is not a heavily optioned vehicle,PS, Power F/disc R/drum,Automatic Trans, 12 Bolt Rear, & Power Top. It did NOT come with some of the popular options such as AC, Power Windows,or the Console mounted gauges/Tachometer package. This car was purchased from the 2nd owners back in 1984, in almost the same poor condition it is in currently. It was intended to be a parts car for another 69 Camaro convertible , I was restoring at the time. So there are a few parts missing: 12 Bolt Rear end, Cowl Induction Hood & Air Cleaner assembly, Dash Pad & Guage Cluster, Dash Woodgrain package (pass side) , Console, shifter & linkage,fan & shroud, steering box, wiper motor, Rally wheels & a few minor odds & ends.If you notice parts missing in the photos they are no longer included with this car! Photos show pictures of the car, VIN tag with expired State Inspection sticker,body/paint code tag, original dealer pamphlet with "Protect-O-Plate" showing matching block numbers.This car is in extremly rough condition. In my opinion it is NOT restorable.It would make an excellent donor car for the new bodies availably from Dynacorn Corp.This car has a clear Pennsylvania Title.

Current bid: US $7,200.67


Is there something REALLY special about this car that I am missing???

[Mini D]

There's no such thing as an unrestorable 69 camaro. All it needs is to have the VIN intact and a clear title, you can fix the rest.

For $75k in body work, you could have a car worth $150k.

[Sandman]

There are '69 Camaros going for $150K?

[Mini D]

Very limited editions... easily. 396 SS would be around the 100k range. Camaros aren't doing anything compared to the Cudas, though. Some of those are going into the millions.

[DiabloTX]

But that's the thing with this one, it's not that rare.  A 350/TH350 with almost no options?

[Mini D]

From Barrett Jackson: http://www.barrett-jackson.com/auctionresults/common/salesresults.asp?auctionid=53&page=8

Though... this one caught my eye:

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/auctionresults/common/cardetail.asp?id=182221

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

There are 69 Camaros going for $500K or more. They're called a ZL-1, and have an all aluminum 427 Rat motor rated at 430HP, and actually making about 515. The L-72 Camaro, also known as a COPO, had a 427 Rat motor rated at 425HP, with iron head and an iron block. This one made around 480HP. I work on one (it's a clone, not a real one) that runs in NHRA Stock Eliminator, in A/SA. I've got about 595HP out of this one. An L-72 powered COPO Camaro, a real one, is worth over $150K. COPO stands for Central Office Production Order, the ZL-1 and the L-72 cars were COPO 9560 and COPO 9561. There were only 69 of the ZL-1 Camaros built, and 2 Corvettes. There were a few hundred of the L-72 Camaros built, along with about half as many Chevelles and Impalas. I used to drive an original L-72 Chevelle that ran B/SA. There is actually a REAL Yenko Super Chevelle L-72 Chevelle running in B/SA these days, belongs to a guy named Kevin Borgstrom. The Camaro I work on belongs to Kevin Cradduck. You can see pictures of these cars in action at http://www.autoimagery.com , just type the driver's name in the search box.

By the way, a Z-11 is a 1963 Impala SS with a 427 W motor rated at about 430HP and making about 520, and an aluminum front clip. The W motor was a precursor to the later Rat motor, and the 427 Z-11 was closely related to the 409-425HP W motor. A real Z-11 could easily bring $250K. Even a 409 425HP car will bring top dollar.

Now, there are TRIM codes for the 1969 Camaro, they are X-11, X-33, and X-77. Those codes denote a body trim type, and not an engine. They are the codes for the Z-28, Super Sport, and Ralley Sport options.

The car in question CAN be restored, provided you want to spend $100K scraping up all the missing parts, IF you can find them all, including a numbers matching engine, transmission, and rear end (the rear end won't have the VIN number on it, but it will have special codes). And yes, if you did it, it would probably bring in a tidy little profit.

One more thing. There are a couple of ZL-1 Camaros out there that are valued at well over $1M. No one knows what a ZL-1 Corvette would bring, since there were only two, and their whereabouts and history are sketchy at best. At one time Lynn Shelbourne turned down $1.5M for his ZL-1 Camaro.

[Mini D]

Looking at that list, the pace cars are going for about 80k.

You can buy a new body for that car, complete for $14k. You can buy any part for the body you want and piece mill it together to keep it "original". A body shop owner will be able to completely restore the car for less than $50k. That leaves $30k in profit. If it has any specialness to it... it goes up quick.

[DiabloTX]

1969 CHEVROLET CAMARO Z-L1 COUPE
LOT #1322 - NO RESERVE

2006 BJCCA CCA
SOLD FOR $486,000
 
 OPTIONS
COLOR - CORTEZ SILVER
TRANS - AUTO
CYLINDERS - V8
ENGINE SIZE - 427 ZL1
HORSEPOWER - 450
VIN - 124379N608879


 
An authentic ZL1 certified by Ed Cuneen of COPO Connection. Cuneen states "this Cortez Silver automatic is presently in number one condition and is one of the finest examples of the marqe in existence." It was owned by Dick Harrell, known as "Mr. Chevrolet, " who raced it in 1970. Fred Gibb plotted with Chevrolet brass to develop a Central Office Production Order (COPO) that would put the Corvette aluminum block 427 ZL1 engine into a Camaro to create the famous Camaro ZL1. COPO 9560 require the aluminum ZL1 engine, the new cold-air hood, heavy duty cooling, transistor iginition, a special rear axle, F70x14 RWL tires, front power disc brakes, and the new Turbo 400 automatic in this example. To homologate COPO 9560 for racing, Chevrolet had to produce 50 cars. Gibb placed an order for all 50. This is number 9 of the 50 Fred Gibb ZL1 Camaros. Part of the Jubilee Classic Collection.

 
Nice find Mini!  

[Mini D]

This cuda was done by the body shop down the street. It was a complete restoration.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Mini D
This cuda was done by the body shop down the street. It was a complete restoration.

$486,000

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Fred ordered the first 50. However, when the first cars arrived on New Year's Eve, he had to make arrangements to send most of them back. The engine option cost more than twice what the car cost. If memory serves correct, Fred figured he'd get them for about $4800, and they were close to $8K. The first bunch, I think there were 7 of them, had a bill for close to $54K. It sure did ruin the New Year's Eve party at the dealership. I think Fred actually sold about a dozen of the cars. Some of them sat for over a year on the lots, some as many as two years.

The car Lynn Shelbourne has sat on the lot for over 18 months. Then, in 1973, when the first big gas crunch hit, it was traded in on a new C-10 pickup! It's the most heavily optioned ZL-1 known to have been built.

 There are about a 1/2 dozen not accounted for out of the 69 cars built, there are about 36 that survive. The rest are gone. As I said, the Corvettes are real sketchy. I've seen one car that was claimed to be one of the two real ZL-1 Corvettes. It is yellow with a single black stripe. The numbers matched, but they could have been doctored.

I know of one ZL-1 engine in a 67 Corvette. There is one documented original car with a service replacement engine, it belongs to Bill Porterfield. Every time that car appears, the guy who has the original engine writes letters to every magazine bragging about having the engine and refusing to sell it. A real low life plick.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Fred Henson raced an original Hemi Challenger in Stock Eliminator for years. Last Winter, while the engine was out to be freshened, the battery charger caught the car on fire and it burnt to the ground, the top caved into the interior. Fred also had a Hemi Cuda or Dart, in the same garage. A guy flying by in a helicopter saw the smoke and called it in, otherwise the other car, the garage, and the house would have gone up as well. Oh Fred went out and bought another original Hemi Challenger and put his race stuff in it. He's still running in the same class as we are, A/SA. He lost the record though, it's held by an L-72 Camaro.