Media and the Middle East.

[Masherbrum]

I do something different.  I get my info from the people that are serving in the Middle East and leave the media out of it.

[Shuckins]

Sain, in all seriousness, I have long realized that there are two sides to the argument over who bears the most responsibility for the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Take a gander at my site.  It's a good read...not more than 30 minutes in length, and more even-handed than a lot of other sites on this topic that I have perused.

There are some Muslims who don't understand why so many other Muslims spend so much time obsessing over what a tiny population of Jews is doing in a tiny portion of the Middle East.

Regards, Shuckins

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Momus--
That's a masterful fact-based point by point rebuttal of the presentation Grun.

Hard to rebut something point by point without having seen the film in its entirety.
I was merely stating how people blindly accept whatever their side be it right or left what is presenting to them as though it were gospel

So far from what Ive seen the film itself is a masterful fact based point by point rebuttal

Really its neither left nor right from a political standpoint
But to provoke independant thought. (yea yea I know. alot of people here are incapable of that without first checking with their political party first)

Basically it shows news clips as we normally see them here, as well as newsclips as to how they are presented elsewhere.

The contrasts are interesting

What is shown here. what isnt and more importantly HOW things are portrayed that shape our opinions.

Example. they mention how during a particular time period where the situation is discrobed as "Relitive calm" No Isrealies were killed but some 36 Palastinians were, 23 of them women and children.
Of course no mention of this is made by our media

Now think about it.
flip flop it. If it were 36 Isrealies that were killed, with the same ratio (26 women and children)
Would it still be presented as "Relitive Calm"?

And why is it only discribed as "Calm" when no Isrealies are dieing?

Seems to me "Calm" would be a good discription of the situation of nobody were dieing on either side

[Shuckins]

Ok...so we get one version of an event through our media's presentation of a film clip...and people in other countries get a different version of the same event through their media's presentation of that event.




If we concede the point that our view is distorted then we also have to concede the point that their view may also be distorted, no matter how well it may be presented.


Remember the international out-cry over the Israeli's building the security fence?  I thought it was an amazingly low-key response to an almost insoluble security problem.  They were walling people out, funnelling them through secured check-points so that it would be easier to spot suspected terrorists trying to sneak into the country.

You would have thought, from reading the foreigh press, that they had just built a massive concentration camp.

[Momus--]

You will get no argument from me on any of that Dred.  I just thought it was funny that Grun was screeching about the video when a quick look at the time he posted indicates he couldn't have watched the whole thing if indeed he watched more than five minutes of it.

Yes Shuckins; that is a reasonably neutral site as far as it goes. It doesn't however even go near to touching the issues the link Rolex posted, so I'd question if you even watched it either?

[Saintaw]

Shuckins,

I'm at work right now, so... other than a 5 minute break, and a one liner here or there... not feasible ATM. I will have a look this week end.

Cheers!

[lukster]

No shortage of hate blinded morans in the world:

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player05.html?080306/080306_bs_word&Big_Story_My_Word&John%20Gibson%27s%20My%20Word&acc&Opinion&-1&new

[lazs2]

Ok... I watched that whole thing.  

A parade of lefties all spoke about the injustice of the Islaelis...  they show check points and beatings and curfews... all out of context.   A area(s) of a country that would make northrern ireland at it's worst seem peacefull and full of brit lovers.

Why a curfew for a year?  why checkpoints?  why beatings of these young men...  you don't see them beating women or old men or children... why is it allways the young men... the young men who look just like the bombers and shooters in the Israel marketplaces?

And.... what good does giving oland back do?   the jordanians and syrians and other arab counrtries are occupying "palestinian" land (whatever that is) and they aren't giveing it back and they aren't allowing the "palestinians" to live in their land.

The "palestinians" (and other arabs) are poor, not because of the jews... but because of their fanatical religious leaders and arab neigbors

But in the end... it boils down to...(and even the video sorta admitted it)

That the jews enemies will settle for nothing less than driving the jews out and into the sea and the death of every single one of em.   The enemies of the jews are fantaical fundamentalist sociopaths with the sole goal of murder on their mind.   The only option for the jews is to have a buffer zone because the arabs will never help the jews in achieving a peace by stopping the terrrorism.

The jews have made peace with the terrorists before and it didn't work because the terrorist leaders can't control the sociopaths.

I see no solution save for the jews to have a buffer zone.

if you watch the video closely you can only come to this conclusion or....

That the jews have gone insane as a people and are only making a buffer zone because they love the torture..

The video focuses on whatever brutality it sees and acts like it is happening in a vacumn.

The video took nothing from my admiration of the jews and did not make me hate the funamentalist terrorists any less..... possibly more because...

I blame the terrorists for the plight of the "palestinians" and I blame the surrounding arab states that allow terrorists to foment the violence but will not lift a little finger to help these people with real aid.

lazs

[Shuckins]

The Arabs and Palestinians have their own propaganda agencies as well.  They are active in Europe and the U.S.  Their views have gained more traction and support overseas than they have here.

That does not mean that their interpretation of events is any more fair and balanced than that offered by the American press.  Perhaps our journalists are less prone to being taken in by their arguments.

Many countries have also made it clear to the Palestinians that little foreign aid and economic support will be forthcoming until the violence stops.  Part of the suffering of the innocent Palestinian population MUST be laid at the feet of the more violent and intransigent elements within that population.

This film is a bit old, in that it makes no mention of the fact, or at least I don't remember hearing it, that the Israelis went into the West Bank and into Gaza and demolished many of the settlements that had been built illegally in response to international pressure.

I don't believe Arafat lived up to a single promise he made at Helsinki.

[WhiteHawk]

No, this problem can only be solved in one way.  Fight to the death.  It is going to bleed forever unless one side or the other ceases to exist.  I think both sides realize this and thats why they are unwillling to give the other any kind of strategical advantage through 'peace' efforts.  The isrealis beat down the palestinians cause they know if the palestinians had the club, they would beat down the isrealis.  Interesting getting to see an opposing veiwpoint though, I get so sick of our media filters here in the US.

[lazs2]

white... if you will look.. those "oppossing viewpoints" were made by American born and bred lefties... you can get their "opinion" quite eaisily in books and internet sources.. they are not censored in the least.

No solution I have ever seen will make fundamentalist nutjobs sane.   this video has no solution.. the simply want the Israelis to stop defending themselves and suck it up till they no longer exist...  

Does anyone here think that if every jew on the face of the earth suddenly disapeared that all of the middle east would be a peacefull and loving place?

Would you live there?  

comes down to... who would you rather live under... fundamentalist muslims or Israeli law?   Who would you rather have as a neighbor?

None of those lefty professors would want to live in an israel that stopped defending itself I can gurantee that.... none of the anti-semites on this board would live under muslim rule.

Cracks me up.. the same guys who go apopleptic when I say that we should end womens suffrage...   are all a twitter over the wonderful muslims who stone women to death over showing an ankle of chin or having sex.

The hypocracy is hard to get over... hard to see their points when they champion the sociopaths and religious whackjobs whose sole purpose is to convert or kill.

lazs

[soupcan]

well said lazs

believe it or not i agree 100%

[Shuckins]

If you study the matter closely enough, you will discover that the "Palestinians" are not the only other ethnic group in Israel.  There are several others, who the Israelis do NOT "oppress."

The Druze are just one example.

A hundred years ago, the "Palestinians" were a realative small group of about 200,000 people of various ethnic backgrounds who resettled there either voluntarily or were forced to by the Turkish government.

As for misappropriation of land...this is, to some extent a red-herring.  In the early 1900's, Jews who settled in Palestine sometimes entered into land deals with Palestinian familes to purchase land.  These land sales were considered legitimate by the Turkish government.  Yet, after the transaction was complete, and the Jews moved in to occupy the land, the Palestinians refused to give it up...as if they thought they had the right to keep it and occupy it.

The argument over the land has been going on ever since.

[WhiteHawk]

Like I say, its a fight to the death solution.  I only wathced half of the video and yes, it was as left as it gets, but my point is, the ISrealis arent about to stop puonding the palestianinas into the dirt, because they know what the palestinians would do if they ever got on thier feet.  So, I, personally cant fault the palestians for trying to rise up against the oppressors just as I cant fault the isrealis for keeping them hogtied.

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Poverty tends to make people angry.

It makes them desperate