HO fighting....

[AutoPilot]

Because of the performance gap in the two planes he controlled the fight.

No offense to you gupy , but that right there is prolly why what happened,.......happened!  You never fight anyone unless it is on your terms and no matter what plane they are in they never control the fight.Once you master that you will be a force to be reckoned with.

What Tinnman stated was exactly what i look for in the MA.The high alt fight.# of months ago i was in a 109-G-2 in the Ndilses map SW of A-5 at about 25-K and i came across of P-51-b's  winged up and flying close formation.They tryed for quite some time to get me both of them HOing the whole time, but i wouldn't let them have a shot and they ended up flying away in a hurry.That is what the real fun of this game is about.Most the time i fly the C202 at around 25-K lookin for a fight, all i find in that is runaway Me-262's.


<<>> Xo847Marine

Thats about the best way i have ever heard this all described  

[WilldCrd]

If a red gujy is in my sights or will be shortly ie. leading the target im gonna shoot. wether im on his six or if its a front quarter or if he is comming head on. im firing
I "used" to not fire in a head on type of pass but 99 times out of 100 the other guy did so now i shoot.
If i want gentlemanly fighting ill go to the da. to me the MA is a streetfight whuile the DA is like a boxing match.
Now if i have some idea of the stick im fighting in the MA wether thru his flying style or from countrymen he already shot down and I know he/she is the honourable type ill refrain from taking the full HO shot but honestly thats pretty rare I get the info before the red guy/gal is ded or I am
this is a game im here to have fun then again war is hell so im all for given em what for !

[Vudak]

Originally posted by x0847Marine

The idea it takes skill to master a game most any child can become good at is laughable at best...

It takes hard work to master this game...  The willingness to try something different; to push the edge; to give it your best shot and try to suprise yourself.  The "skill" is what results from all this.  And make no mistake, there is a great difference between those who have swallowed their pride, taken their lumps, and put in the effort to acquire that skill, and those who use an HO as their primary tactic, run from 1v1's, and do not leave the safety of their friends.

It is true that most any child can become good at this game.  The same applies to most any old man.  I've had my butt handed to me by kids 16 years old and guys over 60.  I've been sent down in a flaming wreck by men with personal arsenals larger then some small countries, and men who just look darn ravishing in a pink number (Lew ) It really doesn't matter what age you are, or your background.  All that matters is that you are willing to put in the time, effort, and determination to improve.  I would have thought someone with your military and police training might not think so lowly of such a person?

I will agree with you, however, that some people do let it swell their heads a bit.  Kind of silly, considering this is, after all, just one darn fun game

[MINNOW]

Well... This is how I see it....

If its an LA7, Spit16, IL2, Nikki, Typhie....   I dont even chance it. If they look to be coming in for the Ho, I will open up.

If its an odd plane that takes some skill to fly, I usually will not open up and wait for tracers before I open up. Lastnite MFreak was in a 109F and I was in a Hurri Mk II and we had a cool little turn fight til a F4U1 came into the fray and went for the HO shot and pilot wounded me.

I survived the initial HO from him, But started blacking out and Freak nailed me turning out.

Seeing as you have no idea who is in the other plane, HO's happen. Really no sense whining about it just defend against it.


 

Minnow

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by AutoPilot
No offense to you gupy , but that right there is prolly why what happened,.......happened!  You never fight anyone unless it is on your terms and no matter what plane they are in they never control the fight.Once you master that you will be a force to be reckoned with.

 

I'd disagree with  you.  If every fight is at an advantage, where is the challenge for you?  Why play then if it's only going to be in a situation where you control it all?

I know lots of folks fly that way, and if I had only one life, I would probably fly much more that way, but I have a neverending supply of planes so why not challenge yourself to get better under less then ideal conditions.

I'm not sure what a 'force to be reckoned with" is in AH?  Nobody controls anything in the end.  The only force to be reckoned with is HTC as ultimately they control the skies that we fly in.

In the end you describe the mentality of probably the majority of people in the MA.  To that end I suppose the ultimate test would be to fill the arena with LA7s and nothing else and see who is standing at the end.

I would never claim to be anything but an average pilot at best in AH, and I would never expect anyone to fly the game the way I want them to.  It's their dime.  But I do understand how some folk question how the game is played from time to time.  Is it about ego?  I can only speak for myself, but nothing in this game matters enough to me for it to be that.  That I'm a good husband and father is all that matters to me in that regard.  AH is just a distraction and fun.  So in that regard I'd disagree with xMarine.

I do believe that some of the vets passionately care about this game and put a lot into it.  As with any of the flight sims, the community can make a difference in that way.  That we all agree on one particular style of play will never happen, but talking about it has yet to hurt anything that I can see.

[Vudak]

Originally posted by AutoPilot
You never fight anyone unless it is on your terms and no matter what plane they are in they never control the fight.

Unfortunately, this is not very practical advice for the MA

So, basically, I make my terms:

"I'm probably lower then ya, in a plane that can't out-accelerate ya, and I'm not gonna shoot ya in the face on the first merge...  Come n' get me"

See, now it's practical

[AutoPilot]

Guppy i have nothing against  what you or the next person does.I was just giving advice you can take it and learn from it or take it with a grain of salt.

Why play then if it's only going to be in a situation where you control it all?

It;s not planning at all it's a version of flight technique that keeps one alive.

The only force to be reckoned with is HTC as ultimately they control the skies that we fly in.

Not how we fly in it though........

In the end it's just a game and most of us know that.Some like to fly around and HO everybody, and not all times it is because it is all they know it's just fun to them.Some get really upset that they got HO'd.Some like to HO when it's five of them against one.Some really get mad after being HO'd.I have gotten mad about it myself.We all learn from are mistakes i hope.The mentality anymore is more of " must get name up in lights by landing kills so i can get some wtg's and feel special" kind of mentality.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by AutoPilot
The mentality anymore is more of " must get name up in lights by landing kills so i can get some wtg's and feel special" kind of mentality.

I agree with this, and wish it didn't exist for that very reason.  Attaboys make folks fly it differently too as somehow that becomes status in thier eyes and I suppose contributes greatly to the kill em anyway you can/vulchfest mentality that leads to those "so and so landed 15 kills in his LA7"

Again to each his own.

[sonic23]

I agree with what Tinman says i pull my guns away from the enemy's plane to show him i have no intention of hoing if he takes the shot i consider it a ho and i know he prbly lacks any acm's and is should be an easy kill, it also makes me mad and want to show no mercy and shoot him till he blow's up.

Sometimes you have no choice but to ho when your in a fight and it starts to get slow and he is forcing the ho on every merge.
An example is when i was fighting reeb in spits in a 1 on, he had the alt adv and dodged the ho (even though i didnt shoot) untill he lost all his energy and when it got slow i pointed my guns away from him but he forced the ho on every merge till he killed me 2 pass later on a ho shot.

We went to the DA later that night and did no hoing fights in spits and i beat him every time.

[Charge]

If I fly a 190A8, which I often do, the shots when 1 vs 1 are really scarce because the thing turns like a brick and cannot accelerate or run away easily if you don't have near max level speed so you bet I'll HO because that is probably the only firing chance I'll get.

Flying a plane with good maneuverability, say, Spit you can opt for early merge because of good E retention and the two hissos hit hard but fire slowly so the chances of hitting are smaller that with 4x20mm of 190.

I mean it dependes of the plane you fly and of what plane is against you in that situation. If you are low on fuel and RTB:ing you probably HO with any plane and if you do not hit you are dead anyway. So it dependes of the situation too.

I don't have anything against HO'ers. HO me anytime, and I'll HO you back.

-C+

[Schatzi]

To HO or not to HO

The neverending story of AH.....



Any time im in the sights of the enemy, i made a mistake, wheather he shoots me HO or stabs me in the back. My fault, not his. In the MA I *expect* people to go for every shot they got. That doesent mean I do.


IMHO (and thats what i usually tell/show new players) pulling for a HO deliberatly puts you at a disadvantage most times. Its not so much the fact that its a HO, its more the issue that by pulling for a shot that might or might not hit (high deflection) you have to give up angles on your enemy. This effect shows itself when people say "When im out of ammo, i usually end up on the tail of the enemy" - because they stop thinking *shot* and start working on the angles. To make the long story short, i think a 50/50 shot just isnt worth pulling for it.

Then there are the pilots that fly like Guppy described. Come in HO, extend and reverse for the next HO. Those are hard to kill... annoying. Mostly theyll eventually wear you down. Then it becomes an Ego thing - someone with less skill killed you.


For me the MA is a place where everything is fair game. Who ever saidlife was fair? I have my own set of "rules", my own concience i (try to) follow. I cant expect that of others.


The DA is a whole different box  though. Or even the MA when in a "duel like" fight. Those situations its about enjoying the *fight*, not the kill.

[mipoikel]

It happened IRL, why not in AH.

[thrila]

I'm not too keen on Ho-ing, myself. I've no interest in dying 50% of them time, however should the need arise i'll take the shot.  I'll also take a front quarter shot if i think i can make it,  I have no problem in taking a shot if the guy in front can't get me in a guns solution.

I really don't mind the HO jousterstoo much, they're generally easy enough to deal with.  Present them your 6 and force the overshoot.

What i do hate are the guys that are simply a moderate exercise of SA.  They'll come down on you, should you however roll your plane 45 degrees they will break off and extend 5k, rinse and repeat.  I can deal with repeated HO's at least they'll give you a fight if you offer your 6, the SA warriors will on no terms engage you if you see them.  I'm not too keen on people who run at the sign of a coalt merge/fight either.

[RTGorkle]

If I can determine that an enemy is not going to fire at me on a face to face merge and it's clear that he's not clever enough to do something other than trace a straight line across my screen as we merge, then I'll more than likely try to finish the fight right there by putting a stream of lead in place for him to fly through. If he's going to take the shot (eg the aforementioned Mr oDALLASo) then I'll not HO unless I've got a great firepower advantage or the situation is dire enough to warrant it.

It's all rather fun zooming (view) in, watching intently, then trying to guess what the other guy's intentions are and reacting swiftly and accordingly.

In the DA (where I don't spend enough time) HOing is totally pointless.

[SuperDud]

I HO all the time in the MA. It's funt o take up an IL2 or 110 and see how many zekes will try to joust. Or even better, how many high alt cons will come down on me and do the same, wasting all their alt and time to climb just to lower the visor and cross lances.