another collision model request

[bagrat]

hows about jus makin everyone take damage,
despite the way it is modeled to send the collision to whoevers comp reads it first,  people who try to hit other people or ram while in head-on. lets jus keep it simple

today i was flyin, got my tail shot off and was spiraling to the ground. the guy who shot my tail off decided to fly through me...."i guess". anyway adding injury to insult, "you have collided" it caused me to lose my left wing.

it really doesnt matter that i lost my wing i was already falling to the ground, but ya cant help but think, that jus aint right.

[Reynolds]

Yeah. Ive had people collide with me, take off my wing, and they go undamaged!

[Schatzi]

Some people just dont *want* to understand, do they?


Youd rather have someone fly PAST you at d100 and take damage?

[bagrat]

Youd rather have someone fly PAST you at d100 and take damage?

maybe u missed the part of the story where i was held completely responsible for a collision while a was falling hopeless to the ground.
yes, yes i would if it meant the same for them.

[Schatzi]

bagrat, you were "held responsible" (which is a very misleading expression) for the collision because only you SAW it. If he had seen a colision, hed have had damage as well.

On his computer, he flew PAST you, never even coming close to a collision. So why should HE get damage?

[bagrat]

bagrat, you were "held responsible" (which is a very misleading expression) for the collision because only you SAW it. If he had seen a colision, hed have had damage as well.

yeah i understand, but if AH is gonna attempt to give someone damage for a collision, there needs to be more to it than just whos comp it appeared on. ya know?

[Schatzi]

I understand. But unless we manage to make the internet fast (to around speed of light) well have to make do with what we got.

[hubsonfire]

Real planes can't fly into each other at 300mph and then fly off unscathed. Collisions  MUST DESTROY BOTH PLANES!1!!1!1!!  

[Chalenge]

The collision model like it is right now is as good as its going to get. If you insist on changing it your really going to whine. Collisions happen so infrequently now but if you change it like you want your gonna cry a river of tears.

[Nosara]

Agreed, if one collides then both should get damage. Low pings should not be penalized because they have good connections.

[Max]

There must be 50 threads and hundreds of posts on this subject. The horse has been beaten into mush.

[Simaril]

Hubs:

How's the pot looking?


Bagrat:

Check out THIS audio download. Its HiTech himself explaining the collsion model at the con, and it makes things completely clear.

Truth is, there's no other way to do things fairly. There is a simple solution -- if you dont like collisions, then dont collide!

[hitech]

Mush so fine each grain is only 2 molicules thick.

[Simaril]

What I really love about this whole thing is just how LONG the exact same whines have been recorded. I cant imagnie how HT maintains his sanity having to say the same thing to the same suggestions year after year after year.



From 2001: "Both should Die" and "The Slower Connect Wins Myth" in the same thread!. HiTech explains and debunks.



2000: The First "Both should go down" complaint... ...which the veterans of other collision systems smacked down.

2000: Why do I always lose the collsion? ...answer...because you're the one who collided!



And here's a very nice discussion by Karnak from 2001:

originally posted by Karnak when some current players were in fourth grade
Shooting and collisions are two totally different things.

Shooting works as follows:

Bob and John are in a dogfight and after a series of maneuvers, Bob manages to hit the right elevator of John's N1K2 on Bob's FE. Bob's FE knows that an MG151/20 round will destroy the right elevator of an N1K2, so Bob sees John's right elevator spin away. Bob's FE informs the server that the damage has occurred and the server then informs John's FE that his right elevator has been hit by an MG151/20 round and destroyed. John's FE then removes his N1K2-J's right elevator. This all occurs in the space of 1/4 to 1/2 of a second.
In the 1/4 to 1/2 of a second that John still has his right elevator on his FE, but not on Bob's FE, he continues to maneuver using it, his maneuvers are then sent, via the server, to Bob's FE. Even though an N1K2 missing its right elevator could not do the maneuvers that John is doing, it continues to maneuver as though it had both elevators until John's FE is informed of the loss of the right elevator, from which point John's N1K2-J follows its new flight model that lacks the right elevator.

It has to work this way because otherwise it would be nigh impossible to hit enemy aircraft. If the hits had to intersect with the target on the target's FE, the attacker would have to guess where the target was on the target's FE. If hits had to intersect with the target on both the attacker's FE and the target's FE on direct 6 o'clock and direct 12 o'clock shots would hit.

Collisions work as follows:

John, now missing his right elevator, continues to turn, hoping that his slower moving N1K2-J can still turn inside Bob's fast moving Fw190D-9 as Bob comes in for another attack. On John's FE he cuts across the path of the onrushing Fw190D-9 with about 100 yards to spare, managing to get through the line of fire without having any more systems destroyed. On Bob's FE John's move is taking place 1/4 to 1/2 of a second later. Bob sees John's break turn, slower because of the elevator damage, and dives in for the kill. Bob presses his attack too aggressively, sees a possible collision and slews his rudder over to try to pass behind John but, unfortunately for Bob, his left wing intersects with the tail of John's N1K2-J, and is ripped off. Bob tumbles down and bails, leaving a damaged, somewhat puzzled John with the victory.

Collisions have to work this way. In the example, John correctly estimated that he had room to cut in front of Bob's Fw190D-9. Bob miscalculated his maneuver and collided with John's N1K2. John should not be punished when he estimated correctly and Bob estimated incorrectly. Likewise, Bob should not be rewarded for his mistake by either destroying John in a collision or by passing through John's aircraft unscathed. Both pilots had a chance to avoid colliding with the other on their own FE, but only John was successful.

If both aircraft were destroyed when a collision occurred people would use this to their advantage. If it takes the attacker 10 minutes to get to your base and you 30 seconds to takeoff and collide with him you can be back where you were 30 seconds later but it will take your enemy 10 minutes to regain what he lost from you colliding with him in a way he could not avoid. After all, on his FE you flew across his flight path 300 yards behind him, why should he have dodged?
On the other hand, if there has to be a collision on both FEs in order to for a collision to occur, then people will simply fly straight through their targets,firing all the way (hitting from 10 feet out is easy), without worrying about colliding. After all,I know that the B-17 I am diving on is, on my target's FE, 150 yards ahead of where it is on my FE. I know there won't be a collision, but I will definitely nail him with by guns as I fly through the image of his B-17.

[Meatwad]

I like taking an IL-2 and ramming panzers with it