From our neighbor to the south...

[Lance]

I read a story in the Austin American Statesman today concerning a Mexican government program that teaches potential illegal immigrants survival skills and provides them with survival kits (complete with condoms) to aid their journey across the border.  You can read it here if you are interested.

[This message has been edited by Lance (edited 05-21-2001).]

[miko2d]

 That sounds like a common sence approach on mexican's part. Now wait and see them condemned to hell and run out of business for it.

 miko

[funked]

Now where is Wobble or Sturm (same guy?) to post something really angry when we need it!

[jihad]

I wonder why they don't invest the time and money into industry and infrastructure to support their citizens at home?

Common sense says it would be beneficial for their country and people.

They must have a conservative republican government. <will that work funked?>  

[miko2d]

 

Originally posted by jihad:
I wonder why they don't invest the time and money into industry and infrastructure to support their citizens at home?

Common sense says it would be beneficial for their country and people.

 According to the most recent physical theories, you can not accelerate time, only slow it down (even that requires a sub-light travel or enormous gravity, which is currently pretty impractical). So there is no known source of extra time on this planet.

 As for money, the paper with pictures you see every day is not really money. You do not make more money by printing more pictureson paper.
 Money is just an expression of society production which is roughfly a time spent working multiplied by productivity (technology, etc,) and divided by level of society inefficiency (waste, duplication, mismanagement, etc.)

 Since mexicans are already working full time, the only way for them to have more production (money) would be to improve their efficiency through technology and infrastructure and reduce their society ineficiency.

 If they had that much money to spare, their people would not be running over the border.
 If you think that they could have saved the money they spent on a few packets full of bandages, water-purifying pills and condoms and used that money to rebuild their industry, technology and road system to the level of USA, you might want to check your math.

 Hopefully with free trade and easier access of US and Canadian companies to cheaper Mexican labor market, the companies will open more factories there which will lead to increase in standards of living, advance of technology and development of infrastructure.
 In a few generations (two-three) their standards of living may get closer to ours.
 Of course this process can (and most likely will) get disruped a few times by labor unions, green parties, isolationist politicians, mexican revolutionaries, etc. So make it six-nine generations.

 miko

[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 05-21-2001).]

[Gadfly]

So I guess(Reading the same paper today) that we should give classes in Texas on how to be a succesful kidnapper in Mexico?

[mrfish]

 

Originally posted by funked:
Now where is Wobble or Sturm (same guy?) to post something really angry when we need it!

dang blunrit!!!! dag nabitt - fast rabasbit groggin shmozell fritzer - derned hispaniola jumpin !!!!!! why i outta...........hmpf

[jihad]

According to the most recent physical theories, you can not accelerate time, only slow it down (even that requires a sub-light travel or enormous gravity, which is currently pretty impractical). So there is no known source of extra time on this planet.

As for money, the paper with pictures you see every day is not really money. You do not make more money by printing more pictureson paper.
Money is just an expression of society production which is roughfly a time spent working multiplied by productivity (technology, etc,) and divided by level of society inefficiency (waste, duplication, mismanagement, etc.)

Since mexicans are already working full time, the only way for them to have more production (money) would be to improve their efficiency through technology and infrastructure and reduce their society ineficiency.

If they had that much money to spare, their people would not be running over the border.
If you think that they could have saved the money they spent on a few packets full of bandages, water-purifying pills and condoms and used that money to rebuild their industry, technology and road system to the level of USA, you might want to check your math.

Hopefully with free trade and easier access of US and Canadian companies to cheaper Mexican labor market, the companies will open more factories there which will lead to increase in standards of living, advance of technology and development of infrastructure.
In a few generations (two-three) their standards of living may get closer to ours.
Of course this process can (and most likely will) get disruped a few times by labor unions, green parties, isolationist politicians, mexican revolutionaries, etc. So make it six-nine generations.

miko


LOL!

All this from a person who thinks I.Q. tests are a measure of a persons intelligence. Are the trees blocking your view of the forest?

[miko2d]

 

Originally posted by Gadfly:
So I guess(Reading the same paper today) that we should give classes in Texas on how to be a succesful kidnapper in Mexico?

 I never said that their common sense actions done in their interests and our common sence action done in our interests should even remotely have the same goals.

 The laws must be respected - any laws. When the laws are openly violated two things happen - first the population loses respect for the laws; second, so many people are doing illegal things that government seems not to care until it decides to affect some particular individual that misbehaves.
 Having stupid or ignored laws on the books may be worse then having no laws at all.

 If we allow hundreds of thousands of mexicans come in every year, we should make it legal. Lot of US citizens see nothing wrong with all those mexicans coming in already - those that give them hjobs, rent them appartments, etc.
 If it is illegal, whe should stop it cold - with a concrete wall, barbed wire, high-voltage fence, minefields, and all the might of US army - whatever it takes.

 I would vote for the former solution - there is obviously a need for those workers here, since lot of americans are hiring them despite our own laws. In the long run, no country ever suffered from inflow of honest, hard-working people. Give them rights, protect them socially, make them pay taxes, let them support their families in Mexico and drive Mexican economy up legally.

 miko

[Maverick]

Miko,

They don't need water purification pills to survive. Those who are trying to cross into US from the South need water, period. The temps here in the southwest average 100 - 115 degrees F in the day to about 70 to 80 degrees F at night. They are trying to cross through about 20 to 70 miles of desert on foot and no way to follow a river or other source of water, pure or not.

I don't really have a problem with these folks. They are almost all just trying to find work and live quietly. They are good people It's the drug runners and thieves we don't need.

Mav

[miko2d]

 

Originally posted by jihad:
LOL!
 All this from a person who thinks I.Q. tests are a measure of a persons intelligence. Are the trees blocking your view of the forest?

 I.Q. tests are a measure of a person's intelligence - by definition. Hence the name "Intelligence Quotient".
 You may argue whether the measure is correct but not what it is or supposed to be.

 Also, my belief that IQ to be a good measure of intelligence does not in any way makes me any smarter. So I have no idea what you are referring to as trees and a forest in that case. Did you forget to type a post?

 You are confusing trust of IQ with religion where believing is supposed to immediately change a person to the better. I fail to see the relevance of my beliefs on the subject of IQ to the opinion I ventured in this thread.

 miko

[miko2d]

 

Originally posted by Maverick:
I don't really have a problem with these folks. They are almost all just trying to find work and live quietly. They are good people It's the drug runners and thieves we don't need.

 I agree completely. Let them come in legally and there will be much fewer of people/drug smugglers.
 Same applies to russians, chinese boat people and any others who are willing to risk their lives to come here and work honestly. We have plenty of room, aging poulation need for more consumers and wider tax base. Sooner or later other countries with huge populations (China, India, Indonesia, etc.) will close the technology gap and we may just become an insignificant small country - nice, but of no  importance - like Canada  

 miko

[funked]

 

we may just become an insignificant small country - nice, but of no importance - like Canada

THE HORROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mighty1]

We DO allow them to come into the country legally. It's the ones who cannot wait their turn that are illegal.

I have no problem with people coming into this country when they do it the legal way. It's when they sneak in that I have a problem with.

Why should it bother us? Well it's simple. If we allowed anyone and everyone into the country we would not be able to support them all. Jobs are tight now so what happens when we get 1 million mexicans or cubans or who ever coming in taking jobs away from regular US born people? Plus what about benefits from the Govt? Do we now have to give them money for unemployment or health if they cannot find jobs?

I think their has to be limits on how many can come in during a year and it must be inforced. I think it should be the same no matter what country they come from.

[miko2d]

 

Originally posted by Mighty1:
I have no problem with people coming into this country when they do it the legal way. It's when they sneak in that I have a problem with.

 You do but a lot of our politicians don't. There is half a million illigal mexicans coming here every year and nobody seems to be worried much or doing much about it.
 If we do get so many people in the country anyway, it would be better for us that they are not criminals but citizens.

 The situation about this law (and many others, including speeding, etc.) reminds me a lot about Soviet Union.

 The common thing was participation in the gray market - most firms could not survive without it. Most people took stuff they produced home from their workplaces. It was not considered immoral (even though it deally was) and not really punished.
 As long as you did not do anything your administrative or party bosses did not like. Then they could immediately charge you with criminal behavior (that everyone was engaged in) and jail you. No need for political persecution or anything.
 In fact, it was true that most people who rightly claimed to be political prisoners were jailed on valid criminal charges.

 It may be in government's interests to have a handle on it's citizens. Allowing stupid laws to stay on the books we give it to them.

 Speaking of supporting the people who come here. Most legal immigrants are not eligible for public assistance. Most of them would not need it. They take jobs but they also buy stuff.
 If most mexicans coming here can take menial jobs, their children will go to colleges.
 Most people coming here or willing to come  from Russia and Eastern Europe have graduate degrees - if that kind of people does not benefit the country, I don't know what will.
 Plenty of highly-educated Israelis are waiting for immigration to Canada because they cannot immigrate to US. Same with Palestinians living in refugee camps. Those people will pay for themselves many times over in a very few years - in new businesses, jobs and taxes, technology and patriotic spirit.
 Right now this country can get the cream of humanity for free - the most enterpreneureural and hardworking, modt adaptable people. It is very stupid not to use that opportunity.

miko

[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 05-21-2001).]