The Cease Fire (analysis from Stratfor)

[straffo]

I'm lazy , you can either search in this BBS or read those links :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_8969
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_bombings_in_France
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,176139,00.html

[lukster]

Originally posted by straffo
I'm lazy , you can either search in this BBS or read those links :

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,176139,00.html

"and a set of laws that would (and in France at times did) make civil libertarians' hair stand on end."


"There, the military-backed government overturned elections won by the Islamists, banned their party and drove its most extreme elements underground — where they've led a merciless war of terror against politicians and citizens alike."

Won'y fly in the USA.

[~Caligula~]

well how about sending some troops to lebanon,with the will to disarm hezbollah RF NOW. don`t do it for israel,do it for the lebanese. if there will be a next round, they`ll get hurt lot more than they did before.
otoh if france and the rest won`t do anything to solve this problem other than talking and sending silly e-mails to nasralla, just stfu. it`s our *ss on the line.

btw i want to live in israel,not die for it.

[Edbert1]

5- Flamebaiting, trolling, or posting to incite or annoy is not allowed.

[straffo]

Originally posted by Edbert1
The first two are examples of France being victimized by terrorists, mostly the result of French colonialism,

Algerian war stopped in 1962 and the bomb in 1995 ... talk about being slow !

Early 1990s eh? Guess that article was written before lthe recent Islamic-riots, were these the same neighborhoods?[/B]

You call it Islamic riot ,I don't thing it was the case (or Los Angeles riots where  christina riots ?)

I guess that means that France is not only a socialist paradise but also a totalitarian paradise. I guess they did learn some things about how to implement security while under Nazi rule for all those years before liberated by US and British forces..."Vee must zee zur papellen", has become standard nowadays.[/B]

You expect me to answer this insulting part ???

I will acknowlege that France is at least trying to combate terrorists within their borders or colonies, I just wish they'd stop supporting them in other countries like Lebanon/Iraq/Iran. [/B]

It's well known we are financing Iran with all the oil we have around Paris ...

[Saintaw]

Errm... Straffo, that ain't oil around Paris, it's cra... OUCH! hey stop it!!!

[lukster]

Originally posted by straffo

You call it Islamic riot ,I don't thing it was the case (or Los Angeles riots where  christina riots ?)
 

If you're referring to the LA riots of the 90's they were about perceived injustice and brutality of police against a minority race. If by "cristina" you mean "katrina" there was looting but no real rioting.

I think your recent rioting in France was very similar to the Rodney King riots in LA.

[Rolex]

In answer to your question, ponydriver:

One of the most horrific things any terrorist could do - something that is everyone's worst nightmare scenario - is something the hezbollah is guilty of. When they're searching for someone in an area they occupy, they grab random young people (teenagers who live in the neighborhood) around the neck and hold them in front of them as human shields as they search with their weapons drawn. Sometimes the hostages are killed in the process and sometimes they are made to drag out the bodies of the people killed.

That image is horrific and would make anyone's blood boil. It's like something from a movie, but it's real with no fake blood or special effects. If one of the hostages were, heaven forbid, a relative, you'd want revenge and would be capable of strangling the terrorist with your bare hands, wouldn't you?

The tactic is called the "neighbor procedure," and it has been an Israeli military tactic, not a hezbollah tactic. You think I'm nuts or making it up, right?

Well, the Supreme Court of Israel had a hard time stomaching it, even though the government attempted to justify it. Even after the Supreme Court placed a temporary ban on it, the IDF continued to do it in violation of their own Supreme Court because it had become part of the culture of the Israeli military.

The Israeli Supreme Court documents are available.

Link

This just illustrates the futility of the region. It seems as if everyone on both sides has a personal grudge, or knows someone with a personal grudge and the cycle continues.

There are many villians on both sides.

[~Caligula~]

Originally posted by Saintaw
"the french won`t have the stomach to die for israel"

Those are the words i read, perhaps this is some different sort of english?

i wrote:

the french won`t have the stomach to die for israel (as they`d see it),

[PonyDriver]

I read the context and a couple of the case studies.  I see there is nothing to support their statements of alleged ..... abuses.  Am I supposed to take some Palestinians word at face value?  I have a hard time believing anyone from a society that produces people who believe it is honorable to strap explosives to oneself and murder civilians iin a suicidal explosion.

OTOH, I must also assume that the  IDF contains extreme members who use excessive force and other inhumane tactics. I think every country, including my own, has some bad apples in their military.

That said, I refuse to assign equal culpability in the conflict between the Hezbo's and Israel.   Do you feel both sides are equally responsible?

[Momus--]

Originally posted by Edbert1
The first two are examples of France being victimized by terrorists, mostly the result of French colonialism, the third is a CNN article (via Time) that  says they've combatted terrorists within their borders.

As I'm sure Straffo won't object to me pointing out, the point is that France has proven it can deal at least as effectively as the US with these extremists. By the way, the Air France episode actually originated outside of France's borders. Personally, if I was Bush I would want France on-side in the fight against Islamic nutters given their experience both in dealing effectively with the issue and with the middle-east in general. Maybe you could refect on that whilst chewing your freedom fries?

I also find it interesting that you're happy to attribute terrorism against France to the consequences of their actions in Algeria but have trouble acknowledging that the Iraqi insurgency is a consequence of anglo-US actions in Iraq, specifically in this thread.. Care to explain the logic of that apparent contradiction?

I guess that means that France is not only a socialist paradise but also a totalitarian paradise. I guess they did learn some things about how to implement security while under Nazi rule for all those years before liberated by US and British forces..."Vee must zee zur papellen", has become standard nowadays.

Says the guy who was whining about personal attacks merely days ago. Brilliant.

I will acknowlege that France is at least trying to combate terrorists within their borders or colonies, I just wish they'd stop supporting them in other countries like Lebanon/Iraq/Iran.

Nice hyperbole. Which terrorists does France support, and how? Details please, with sources.

[PonyDriver]

4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.

[Momus--]

4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.

[Rolex]

http://www.adalah.org/features/humshields/05_02_humshields_briefing.pdf

[PonyDriver]

4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.