Author Topic: Alternative fuel (Read 1740 times)

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #60 on:** August 15, 2006, 01:40:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Maverick
Laz,

The california power grid is already strained past it's capacity to support the structure already there. If you add electric buses, won't that just make the situation worse and cost everyone more in higher electricity bills? I wonder what would happen when a brown out hits, would the bus simply stop in the middle of the street?

Distributed power generation is going to help Calif.

Tax incentives are in place in Calif for people to install photovoltaics on their roofs, and during the heat of the day PV's could at least partially power A/C units (Swamp coolers would be more energy efficient and would work very well in most of the state.)

Net metering allows the home owner to turn the meter backwards and send power to the grid on the days when he produces more than he consumes. PV's would work best on the hot sunny days and that is now peak power demand. The grid then becomes the battery for the homeowner and on cloudy days or nitetime the the home is a net draw on the grid. You could make 700 watts for an installation cost of $10k and then get back much of your outlay with tax incentives over the next five years.

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Originally posted by Dago
Can anyone actually point to a method to produce a useable hydrogen fuel in which the extraction/seperation method doesnt actual require more energy than the hydrogen can deliver? It may exist, but I haven't seen or heard of it yet.

Doesn't exist and according to the 2nd law of thermodynamics, cannot exist. If you get out more of something than you put in, then you have a limitless supply of something. That is better than perpetual motion, a 1:1 ratio.

Even natural gas fired power plants... effecient Brayton cycles (Gas Turbines use the Brayon cycle) achieve 20 to 25% heat efficiency. (Energy out / Energy in)

Maverick · « **Reply #61 on:** August 15, 2006, 01:47:02 PM »

Holden,

I could agree on the solar panels being a help but the cali grid expands so fast I think it would be a Band-Aid on a hemorrhage. It would work best in the south eatern part of the state but would fail miserably in the northern part. Same for the swamp cooler. Given the water situation there the swamp cooler could bite them as well as it typically uses about 65 gallons per day in AZ experiance. They are still popular here, at least until the humidity goes up over 30%.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #62 on:** August 15, 2006, 01:59:49 PM »

I live in Southern Oregon and PV's work here... Oregon has similar tax incentives and even in Portland PV's are effective.

Cal needs 45 to 50 Gigawatts at peak demand.

With a population of 20 to 25 million, and 5 people under each roof, and each roof putting on 700 watts, that would be 3.5 gigawatts off the peak demand, with no load on the grid.

3.5 gigwatts is the equivalent of 7 large combined cycle gas turbine plants.

Obviously expansion of the grid needs to take place. Nuclear plants as well as wind, wave, tidal, and good old fashion fossil plants need to come on line as well.

lazs2 · « **Reply #63 on:** August 15, 2006, 02:13:38 PM »

mav... the real problem with the grid is the way it is spread out to the "suburbs" that is the bottleneck and the real problem.. if we did not need to feed these bottlencks...indeed... if they were more than self sufficient then charging stations for public transport closer to the large city grids... closer to the source... would be no problem. Getting juice to the burbs is like trying to get an elephant through a straw.

lazs

navajoboy · « **Reply #64 on:** August 15, 2006, 02:16:38 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
mav... the real problem with the grid is the way it is spread out to the "suburbs" that is the bottleneck and the real problem.. if we did not need to feed these bottlencks...indeed... if they were more than self sufficient then charging stations for public transport closer to the large city grids... closer to the source... would be no problem. Getting juice to the burbs is like trying to get an elephant through a straw.

lazs

or like trying to get a Value Menu Boy (BK) to be nice...

lazs2 · « **Reply #65 on:** August 15, 2006, 02:31:46 PM »

well.... nice is ok if you are a dishonest suck up with low self esteem.

lazs

dmf · « **Reply #66 on:** August 15, 2006, 08:31:28 PM »

I kinda tend to shy away from Nuclear powered cars, too many people thing red lights are optional, you know the scene, one car Tbones the other, the reactor core splits in half, and poof 2/3 of yoru city become part of history.

Hydrogen is totally out of the question, Why? One word >>>> Hindenburg.

Cold fusion? Yea whatever, just stay 1 light year away from me.

Solar power? good idea, but what happens when it rains?

lazs2 · « **Reply #67 on:** August 16, 2006, 08:49:30 AM »

when it rains the solar panels produce less power.

The grid is the most strained durring daylight hours. The grid creating power to send to the factories and cities durring the day instead of straining it like it does now would be a huge deal.

solar and battery tech will get better... there is no way that it won't..... Unless the government comes up with some "rebate" political scam to stop research.

If the "government" want to help it can offer a billion dollar reward for the first battery to reach a certain storage capicity or the first solar panel to reach a certain efficiency level at a certain cost.

lazs

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #68 on:** August 16, 2006, 10:23:55 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by dmf
Hydrogen is totally out of the question, Why? One word >>>> Hindenburg.

Natural Gas

Gasoline

Coal Dust

Jet Fuel

All these can explode and kill us too.