Author Topic: Has anyone played with "tossing" bombs?  (Read 1149 times)

Offline AKDejaVu

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Has anyone played with "tossing" bombs?
« on: April 05, 2000, 10:04:00 AM »
Has anyone tried this in AH yet?  Climbing or banking and releasing the bomb?  I hadn't really thought of it before this and am at work so I am unable to try it out.  I have no idea how the bomb drop is modeled as to if this is even possible.

Basically.. can a bomb be thrown up in the air at all.. or does it only drop in respect to the ground, regardless of plan attitude.

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Offline Saintaw

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Has anyone played with "tossing" bombs?
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2000, 10:13:00 AM »
Should be able to, but since the Blast effect of the Bombs don't seem to be "overmodelled yet" <--------  

I think you will loose a LOT of accuracy & will be very hard to blow things up...


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Offline miko2d

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Has anyone played with "tossing" bombs?
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2000, 11:27:00 AM »
 The only place where the bomb toss is usefull would be cratering the runway. You could fly very low, toss-bomb from low alt and far away, so that you could turn away and not even overfly the field.
 You need a pretty high speed for that, so it  only makes sence in the Moskito... Hopefully we will get one eventually.

Offline AKDejaVu

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Has anyone played with "tossing" bombs?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2000, 11:33:00 AM »
I'm thinking of a few things to try this with.  I was just wondering if anyone knew wether or not the bombs would actually go up.  I know they should, but that doesn't necessarily mean they will.

Has anyone tried it?

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Offline -duma-

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Has anyone played with "tossing" bombs?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2000, 12:33:00 PM »
Tried it - the bomb did go up and went quite a long way total before hitting. To be honest, I doubt it'd be a useful tactic though - far too inaccurate and difficult to predict...

Offline AKDejaVu

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Has anyone played with "tossing" bombs?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2000, 12:47:00 PM »
I've seen it used effectively in Warbirds.  Where there is a will.. there is always a way

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Offline Ping

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Has anyone played with "tossing" bombs?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2000, 12:59:00 PM »
 Tried it offline while filming it. It doesn't appear to me as tho they toss.
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Offline Superfly

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Has anyone played with "tossing" bombs?
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2000, 01:14:00 PM »
I saw pyro drop two bombs that way in a 38 on HT's tank last night.    

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Offline Fury

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Has anyone played with "tossing" bombs?
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2000, 01:52:00 PM »
That is cruel and unusual punishment.  Not the lobbing part, it's the tank comment  

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Offline Hangtime

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Has anyone played with "tossing" bombs?
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2000, 02:12:00 PM »
Hunh. I've tried it. Ineffective... but then again; without a bombing computer and repeatable bomb accuracy it's kinda like the Luke Skywalker bit... I ain't got the Force; so; no joy.  

On a similar note... anybody been able to JABO with repeatable accuracy?? Seems like every time I drop; the bomb does something a bit diffrent than the last time. I'm doin my damndest to stabilize and use the exact same  drop parameters; but each time the damn thing goes awry in a different direction.

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Offline Fatty

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Has anyone played with "tossing" bombs?
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2000, 03:04:00 PM »
I've actually been hit by my own bombs screwing around, so I'd imagine this is modelled correctly that it'd be theoretically possible (in the air turning into the drop path, not on the ground).

Hang I can get both acks at a small field better than 50% of the time (discounting early and rushed drops due to an enemy fighter cap).  When I missed it's usually due to either an unsteady approach or not having trimmed the plane out for high speed prior to approaching.  If you're trying to compensate and are erratic coming in, the plane is never going to be headed in the same direction it's pointed in, so you're going to miss most of the time.  This is especially true if you're having to use the rudder.

Most of the FDB field captures are done with two fighters killing ack with jabo then capping while a 47 follows.

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Offline bloom25

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Has anyone played with "tossing" bombs?
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2000, 03:18:00 PM »
Oh, I see how it is ... too busy playing with 1.02 to share it with us!  

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Offline eagl

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Has anyone played with "tossing" bombs?
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2000, 03:37:00 PM »
I've done loft bombing in WB with a decent amount of effectiveness.  The trick is figuring out the exact parameters and choosing very specific terrain points.  

What I do, is pick a field and look for a point of terrain that I can always fly right over.  I then fly over that point at a decent airspeed, say 350 mph.  You want a speed that you can reach easily with only a slight dive to make sure you can always hit that exact speed.  When I hit the point already heading in the right direction, I pull back at 3 G's, and pickle at an exact pitch angle.  This was easier in WB because of the hud display, but in AH you can use parts of the plane when they meet the horizon on the way up.  Anyhow, initially it's all trial and error, finding the exact speed, pullup point, and pitch angle for each target you want to hit.  After that, it's a matter of making a little map of each field with the point and loft parameters for each target written down next to the pullup point.

I found that I could get over 75% hits on WB acks with 1000lb bombs without ever getting near the ack envelope.  It's a lot easier when nobody is chasing you of course, and the attack is almost impossible in a furball because the parameters being off by even a little bit can cause large miss distances.

I haven't tried it in AH, but the principles will be the same.  Use other references for pitch angle, like looking at the front-45 deg angle view and using some detail on the canopy frame against the horizon as your pickle reference.

Another way to increase the chances of a hit is to use a light bomber, starting from a dive to the pull point/altitude.  As long as you're over your point at the right heading, a string of 3 or 4 bombs ought to bracket the target if you're close on the pitch and airspeed parameters.  Experiment with salvo delays and pitch angle to adjust the bomb impact interval.

If you're consistently hitting short or the acks shoot at you before you get a chance to get away, you can also try starting from a higher altitude.  Just don't go so high that you can't use the exact ground reference for the pullup point.

This is kind of how it's done in RL, except that in RL we have pages and pages of bomb ballistic tables that we can use to determine exactly how far the bombs will go when released from various angles, speeds, and altitudes.  In modern aircraft, the bombing computer will figure this all out in real-time, but loft bombing works even with tables and decent charts.  Back in the F-111 days, they would fly over a ground reference point at an exact heading, groundspeed, and altitude, then start a precomputed countdown timer.  When the timer reached zero, they would begin their pullup, and then release the bomb at the precomputed pitch angle.  Experienced crews could get 20 meter miss distances even when throwing the fairly inaccurate practice bomblets.  All this was done using tables, circular slide rules, wind correction graphs, and accurate aeronautical charts.  The only computer involved was a gear-driven mechanical dingus that helped correct the timing for winds.

If HTC would release the equations used for bomb motion, we could make tables for ourselves and do this just like real life.  Of course, it's probably not worth the effort anyhow  



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Offline Hangtime

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Has anyone played with "tossing" bombs?
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2000, 10:42:00 PM »
Dammo Fatty. U da man.   I'm gonna have ta come sit in the back and crack bad jokes one night while yah show me how yah do it.  

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Offline Jekyll

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Has anyone played with "tossing" bombs?
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2000, 06:24:00 AM »
Back in my Brand W days (when we used to be able to crater runways) the lob-toss delivery was one of my favourites.

Approach the field in a B25 at about 5k, directly along the runway axis.  Dive down to 100 feet to build up some speed then when about 2k out pull up in a 3g climb.  Pickle the bombs with about a half second delay, and then watch them crater the entire runway with about 100 yard spacing  

I've tried the same in AH, but cratering runways has no real effect of course, and trying to lob-toss acks is just about impossible as yet.  Maybe a flock of P51's lob-tossing the city structures might be fun  

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