Fight or Flight

[Maverick]

Originally posted by straffo
Here they fear Alarm system because they know police will be present within 5 minutes.

That's at least 2 minutes longer than it would take to search the house for valuables and remove same after killing the occupants. They can always return again for other items they left behind after the Police and the bodies of the occupants are gone.

Still a respectable response time but the likelyhood of stopping the offense in the act is negligable.

[straffo]

Originally posted by lazs2
only a fool would put his life and his families in the hands of the police and an electronic alarm system.
 

A fool living in the US, in France even the people doing "hold-up" not often have real weapons.

And people living 30 min out of police usually are not targeted for 2 reasons :
- they are far from the burglar
- they are armed.

[straffo]

You posted when I was posting

Originally posted by Maverick
That's at least 2 minutes longer than it would take to search the house for valuables and remove same after killing the occupants. They can always return again for other items they left behind after the Police and the bodies of the occupants are gone.

Still a respectable response time but the likelyhod of stopping the offense in the act is negligable.

Killing occupand with what ? a spoon ? a fork ?
Don't forget we have a lost less weapon availlable than in the US.

There is almost no case of burglary with murder where I live, the last one I heard of was some 5 years ago and it was the headline of all nation wide new paper.

[Maverick]

Straffo,

Everyone has an access to a knife. It doesn't take much to find a large rock either not to mention a piece of pipe, large stick like a bat etc.. I'm sure you get the idea. If a burglar is intent on an occupied home invasion you can bet they'll have some kind of weapon. Not that many folks, especially those who figure the Police will protect them have any inkling about protecting themselves from someone kicking the door down. The will likely be frozen in shock while the entry is made. Even in France.

Now stop being obtuse.

[Nilsen]

Two different worlds Maverick.

Yes you can if you are extremly unlucky get robbed by someone who doesnt leave when they see you are home, but thats no reason to arm yourself. The chanse that this happes is minute compared to every other everyday accident you can find yourself in. You dont stop driving, driving old cars, go out partying at night or any other "risky" thing just on the odd chanse that something may happen. We would all live in bunkers and wear body armor if we had to go out.

There is apparently a big difference in how crimes are commited in our respective countries. I have no doubt that if i lived in a high-crime area in America or anywere else for that matter that i would arm myself, but since we dont need that you must see that there are differences. If we had the need then we would and the laws would also be different.

Do you think the gun laws are different here just because the governmetns wants us harmed?

[Donzo]

Originally posted by FUNKED1
What if it's grandma calling to say happy birthday?

Then it's grandma calling to say happy birthday..BFD!
Who cares.
Anything to hide?  Is grandma suspected of being a terrorist or associated with them?  If not then I doubt they would be listening in on your conversation.

[Maverick]

Nilsen,

Stop reading anything into my post other than the intent to reply to Straffo's post. You are making assumptions and inferences that go beyond what I was saying. Straffo set the situation in his post about the Police response. I was just commenting on that. Nothing more.

Believe me I have more that a little experiance in burglaries, burglars and folks who like to prey on others. It kind of went with the job I had.

The chances of you being burglarized even in the SW here in Tucson aren't that great even though they have a significant gang problem, drug problem and illegal alien problem. It isn't an "atmosphere of fear" situation going on. I also know the average response time for the Police to get to the scene and that only starts AFTER they are called. If no one outside the house notices the situation the Police will only be called long after the criminals are gone. Police are not proactive except in a couple areas like traffic, thery are reactive which means after the fact.

[john9001]

Originally posted by Nilsen
Two different worlds Maverick.

Do you think the gun laws are different here just because the governmetns wants us harmed?

no, your governments want to protect you, the history of europe for the past 2000 years is that every time europeans gets their hands on weapons they turn into mass murders, so for your own protection you are not allowed to have weapons.

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by Maverick
Nilsen,

Stop reading anything into my post other than the intent to reply to Straffo's post. You are making assumptions and inferences that go beyond what I was saying. Straffo set the situation in his post about the Police response. I was just commenting on that. Nothing more.

Believe me I have more that a little experiance in burglaries, burglars and folks who like to prey on others. It kind of went with the job I had.

The chances of you being burglarized even in the SW here in Tucson aren't that great even though they have a significant gang problem, drug problem and illegal alien problem. It isn't an "atmosphere of fear" situation going on. I also know the average response time for the Police to get to the scene and that only starts AFTER they are called. If no one outside the house notices the situation the Police will only be called long after the criminals are gone. Police are not proactive except in a couple areas like traffic, thery are reactive which means after the fact.

Sorry.. didnt mean to stick my nose in your discussion


I dont live in America so I have always tried to stay away from the domestic debate on US gunlaws. They are none of my business and because I dont live there my info is rather limited.
Its just that often people living in America (not saying you) try to tell us living in other places what is best for us, or atleast thats the way debates tend to end up. The gun "fans" on your side of the pond may also think that we know best what works on your side. For us your gun culture is as baffeling as ours may seem to you.

Ill try to be more precise in my statements, but if I forget to underline it then for the record I speak on behalf of our point of view and what works here and not how it is over on your end.

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by john9001
no, your governments want to protect you, the history of europe for the past 2000 years is that every time europeans gets their hands on weapons they turn into mass murders, so for your own protection you are not allowed to have weapons.

lol.. go fish in a different pond john

[Maverick]

Nilsen,

I often think that the concept that several folks (Euros and others) have of the "gun culture" here is rather skewed. It is not a situation that everyone is afraid (really fearful) of someone breaking into their house. That is a very small part of the reason to have a firearm.

Hell, I carried one almost every day of my life for almost 20 years in very unfriendly areas. I'm not afraid to go around unarmed and I have done so almost exclusively for over 12 years since I retired. That includes being in over 30 different states in the US as well. I have not felt intimidated, fearful or worried that I did not have a weapon on me. I do have more than one in the RV as I use them for "fun" shooting like trap with Toad, Rude, Stringer and a couple other TAS guys in Kansas. I also do some informal target shooting, "plinking" with a pistol or two.  It's not a "gotta protect me and the homestead from all the bad guys" situation. Even in AZ. I don't see lots of folks walking around with a gun on their hip. It's rather unusual in fact. The old west shows are not now nor are they really a true representation of "then" either.

Like having a fast car, motorcycle or boat, it's a tool to use to have fun with that can also be misused. Until I do so there should be no reason I have to ask to use one or have it. It IS one of my rights (unlike the car motorcycle and boat things).

Originally posted by Nilsen
Sorry.. didnt mean to stick my nose in your discussion


I dont live in America so I have always tried to stay away from the domestic debate on US gunlaws. They are none of my business and because I dont live there my info is rather limited.
Its just that often people living in America (not saying you) try to tell us living in other places what is best for us, or atleast thats the way debates tend to end up. The gun "fans" on your side of the pond may also think that we know best what works on your side. For us your gun culture is as baffeling as ours may seem to you.

Ill try to be more precise in my statements, but if I forget to underline it then for the record I speak on behalf of our point of view and what works here and not how it is over on your end.

[straffo]

Originally posted by Maverick
Straffo,

Everyone has an access to a knife. It doesn't take much to find a large rock either not to mention a piece of pipe, large stick like a bat etc.. I'm sure you get the idea. If a burglar is intent on an occupied home invasion you can bet they'll have some kind of weapon. Not that many folks, especially those who figure the Police will protect them have any inkling about protecting themselves from someone kicking the door down. The will likely be frozen in shock while the entry is made. Even in France.

Now stop being obtuse.

Why don't you ask what I own ?
(legally)

[Maverick]

Straffo,

You could own a 20 mm cannon for all I know. It's irrelevent to the post you made earlier. You did not mention it was yourself you were speaking of. My response to you was also not predicated on it being you that we were speaking of.

It doesn't make any difference what you own if you have neither access to it nor the will and ability to use it at the time it is needed.

I have all kinds of different weapons including a small battle rifle collection and numerous handguns. Almost all of them are where I can't get to them as they are in another state. The small selection I have with me are available. I also have the training, mindset and will to use one if it is truly necessary as well as the ability to not have to use one if I can't get it. Most folks don't react quickly or properly to a threat. They freeze with shock until it's too late to be properly active.

[straffo]

Originally posted by Maverick
Straffo,

You could own a 20 mm cannon for all I know. It's irrelevent to the post you made earlier. You did not mention it was yourself you were speaking of. My response to you was also not predicated on it being you that we were speaking of.
 

If you start a post with my name you are addressing me , none else.
So why all of a sudden changing the subject from me to the other French citizen ?

And btw as I'm not parading the streets with my gun* I'm a potential target like all the people of my country.

A contrario to what Lazs pretend owning gun don't make you living safely you're sentence : "Most folks don't react quickly or properly to a threat. They freeze with shock until it's too late to be properly active."
fit 99% of the people and is the reason I'm against weapon at home.




*and it'll be pretty stupid as 99% of the time I've no ammo at home.

[J_A_B]

"If you knowlingly seek out dangerous parts of cities at night in high heals and your purse flapping in the breeze you ask for trouble."  --Nilsen

You're saying crime is the victim's fault?


"I have no doubt that if i lived in a high-crime area in America or anywere else for that matter that i would arm myself, but since we dont need that you must see that there are differences." --Nilsen

You think it can't happen to you?


Suffice it to say I disagree with your philosophy, Nilsen.  


As a general comment, I think the only "climate of fear" is among the anti-gun crowd--they fear guns and want them banned.  Such people make headway because many other people are complacent and all too willing to allow the banning of freedoms they don't personally use.  "Ban anything you like, so long as it isn't something I do".

J_A_B