Author Topic: scenario planning  (Read 3515 times)

Offline culero

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« on: August 23, 2006, 05:14:01 PM »
This is in response to Brooke's BoB CO recruitment, I just didn't want to hijack the purpose of his thread.

I'm shocked to see a veteran of scenario experience like Brooke proposing the time schedule for BoB when COs haven't even been found. Trying to cram this process, registration, formation of team structures, testing of arena settings, practices, etc all into 30 days is, all due respect intended, lunacy.

The same thing was IMO the major factor resulting in Japan becoming the debacle it in the end was. Scenarios are team events, and teams need time to organize. CO recruitment needs to happen before registration, and registration needs to be complete a month before the first frame in order to allow proper preparation.

I've worked with ROC in the past enough to know he knows better (or should) and I know Brooke has more experience than ROC and I combined. Guys, wake up and smell the coffee, the course you're setting leads directly to rocky shoals.

culero
“Before we're done with them, the Japanese language will be spoken only in Hell!” - Adm. William F. "Bull" Halsey

Offline Brooke

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Re: scenario planning
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2006, 07:54:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by culero
This is in response to Brooke's BoB CO recruitment, I just didn't want to hijack the purpose of his thread.

I'm shocked to see a veteran of scenario experience like Brooke proposing the time schedule for BoB when COs haven't even been found. Trying to cram this process, registration, formation of team structures, testing of arena settings, practices, etc all into 30 days is, all due respect intended, lunacy.

The same thing was IMO the major factor resulting in Japan becoming the debacle it in the end was. Scenarios are team events, and teams need time to organize. CO recruitment needs to happen before registration, and registration needs to be complete a month before the first frame in order to allow proper preparation.

I've worked with ROC in the past enough to know he knows better (or should) and I know Brooke has more experience than ROC and I combined. Guys, wake up and smell the coffee, the course you're setting leads directly to rocky shoals.

culero


Oh ye of little faith.

Proposing a *tentative* time schedule is fine and is how it should go, so that people can at least plan a little and get moving on things.  Sticking to it if things don't happen in time is a problem, and that's not what I have ever suggested.  Keep in mind:

1.  "The dates and times of this four-frame scenario are not yet finalized.  This scenario is tentatively scheduled for Saturdays, September 23, September 30, October 7, and October 14 . . ."

2.  This is a stock design that ran fine before, and we are running it again without modificiation.  Thus, no lengthy shakedown is needed (as otherwise must be allotted for with a new design), and there will be plenty of participants who played in BoB 2004.  It should be quite possible for a competent CO to formulate his frame 1 strategy in less than a month.  You or I would have no problem formulating frame 1 orders in a week.

3.  This scenario doesn't have any unusual things to practice -- it's standard air combat and bombing runs, which people are used to.  It should take a lot less preparation.

4.  We want to run Pearl Harbor next, so we can't indefinitely delay BoB.  We're running BoB to fit in between (if there is enough interest).

So, given the above, here's the estimated/sought-after timeline:

Sept. 3: finish getting both CO's, open registration.
Sept. 16: beta frame, close registration
Sept. 23: frame 1

If we're a week late in signing up CO's, we can move the schedule forward a week.  If no CO's step up even one week after Sept. 3rd (i.e., no one steps up even after 3 weeks), then we should skip BoB 2006 due to lack of command interest and because there is not enough time to run it before Pearl Harbour.

Every scenario should have at least a tentative timeline and plan, with time alotted for the various necessary tasks and with enough flexibility to adjust it within reason.  If it's a new design, it needs a lot more time.  If it's a straightforward stock design, it needs much less.  If it's a scenario without something else desired after it, then it can be indefinitely delayed until CO's are found, then the schedule can march on as planned from that point on, or delayed further if there is some problem or things don't go as quickly as planned.  If it's a scenario that is meant to run in between, like this one, there is only so much delay that can be accomodated.  Beyond that, it needs to be cancelled.

I hope this information causes you to be unshocked.

Offline Major Biggles

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« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2006, 07:55:05 PM »
i dont see why a scenario cant be organised in 30 days...

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Offline ROC

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« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2006, 12:06:22 AM »
I actually put the guys on a pretty tight rope, as there was talk of a pretty significant rework of the terrain.  I had requested that the map improvements were to be Minimal, so that no major changes to the event would occur. These guys would probably tell you that I was fairly adamant that this event be Off the Shelf so that the conditions you describe didn't occur.  The point made was actually Simple and Off the shelf, or it doesn't run at all.  I didn't want the event crammed into a short time period of testing, double checking, and trial and error.  My goal was, from the onset, to use an Existing Map, tried and Known, with a ruleset that has been used before.

This was intended as a Filler to run while Pearl was being designed.  The deadlines to get the Map Complete and COs in place are pretty strict, leaving about a month to Plan and Recruit for an event that is 100% done by the time the COs are signed.

This event has been ran before.  The arena has been tested, the OOB has been used, there are some minor changes that are Specific to Spawn Points and won't change the map.

You might not have been aware of that discussion prior to the announcement of the event though.

The points raised by culero are exactly why I started, and pushed for, working on Pearl Harbor as early as I did, as a side note.
ROC
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Offline culero

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« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2006, 02:13:25 AM »
My suggested timeline for a September 23rd Frame 1:
CO recruitment done by July 23rd
Registration done by August 23rd
Arena setup beta test/dress rehearsal practice September 7
Arena open for practice as much as possible September 8-22

You're IMO starting WAY too late, or pushing WAY too fast.

culero
“Before we're done with them, the Japanese language will be spoken only in Hell!” - Adm. William F. "Bull" Halsey

Offline culero

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Re: Re: scenario planning
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2006, 07:33:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Brooke
Oh ye of little faith.
~snip~
I hope this information causes you to be unshocked.


LOL Brooke :)

I understand your logic as stated, I just disagree on a fundamental level. Even for a "standard" scenario design, its my strong opinion that a month is desirable as a time period for team building.

culero
“Before we're done with them, the Japanese language will be spoken only in Hell!” - Adm. William F. "Bull" Halsey

Offline ROC

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« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2006, 11:08:48 AM »
Culero, you are missing the entire point of the event to begin with.

There is Nothing Scheduled until Pearl Harbor.  This was an off the shelf event so that people had something to play in the meantime. Simple, uncomplicated, not a steep learning curve or brand new map to figure out.  Those that want to, will, those that don't wont.

Nothing is being forced or pushed.  There were 2 options, run in this time slot as an infill event or run nothing until Pearl.  I've got guys that Want to run scenarios, and people that Want to join them, some say a month is enough, others say it's not enough.  Going to run it for those who want it, it's what we do, nothing forced, nothing mandated.
ROC
Nothing clever here.  Please, move along.

Offline Schutt

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« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2006, 11:47:15 AM »
BoB was fine last time, just dont give us the noughty fog again where you could not see a wingman anymore.

Just please organise the pickup of downed pilots better, last time i had to wait 30 mins till a CM showed up and verrified that im rescued.

Evrything else was fine... just with the rescue verification a better system is needed.

cu schutt

Offline Nifty

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« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2006, 03:29:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Schutt
BoB was fine last time, just dont give us the noughty fog again where you could not see a wingman anymore.

Just please organise the pickup of downed pilots better, last time i had to wait 30 mins till a CM showed up and verrified that im rescued.

Evrything else was fine... just with the rescue verification a better system is needed.

cu schutt

Schutt! One of my fine Spitfire pilots from the last BoB scenario! You gonna register Allied again? :D
proud member of the 332nd Flying Mongrels, noses in the wind since 1997.

Offline Schutt

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« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2006, 03:55:31 PM »
Nifty glad you remember me i had a lot of fun in that scenario.

I dont know yet for what side i will fly... maybe i ll try a 109 this time.

Offline Brooke

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« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2006, 04:42:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by culero
My suggested timeline for a September 23rd Frame 1:
CO recruitment done by July 23rd
Registration done by August 23rd
Arena setup beta test/dress rehearsal practice September 7
Arena open for practice as much as possible September 8-22

You're IMO starting WAY too late, or pushing WAY too fast.

culero


By that measure, this one is an experiment in people -- for "off the shelf" scenario designs, not new designs -- getting on with it more quickly.  If this doesn't work, then we'll keep the longer timetables and run only two scenarios per year as we have been doing instead of, say, 4 per year, which I'd like to see.

In Air Warrior, there were years where we were able to get out 4 or more scenarios per year.  We did it then, and it should be possible now.

For example, 1995 and 1998 were like this:

Saga of the 5th Air Force (August, 1995)
Battle of Germany 2 (July, 1995)
Kursk 3 (May, 1995)
Munda Weekend (February, 1995)

Kursk 4 (December, 1998)
Afrika, '42 (September, 1998)
Guadalcanal (July, 1998)
Target Germany (June, 1998)
Fortress Rabaul v2 (January, 1998)

What made it possible was quicker timetables for scenarios that weren't completely new designs (such as Fortress Rabaul, Kursk, and Battle of Germany).

One of the things that helped in the AW days, though, were people who would quickly step up for what is needed, such as CO positions.  We'll see how it goes.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2006, 04:49:57 PM by Brooke »

Offline Roscoroo

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« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2006, 04:49:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Schutt
BoB was fine last time, just dont give us the noughty fog again where you could not see a wingman anymore.

Just please organise the pickup of downed pilots better, last time i had to wait 30 mins till a CM showed up and verrified that im rescued.

Evrything else was fine... just with the rescue verification a better system is needed.

cu schutt


Thats what were working on , More pt spawns in the "Dead zones" along with instant return to tower after CM/rescue verification .
Roscoroo ,
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Offline Krusty

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« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2006, 04:54:21 PM »
Does that mean the map has been updated with more PT spawns? Will there be a new map DL?


P.S. roo, did you get my PM?

Offline Roscoroo

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« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2006, 04:59:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Does that mean the map has been updated with more PT spawns? Will there be a new map DL?


P.S. roo, did you get my PM?



yes there will be an updated map ..

and

No ,, is my pm box maxed again ??? I'll go clean it out (for the 100th time in 2 months )
Roscoroo ,
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Offline Krusty

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« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2006, 05:23:13 PM »
Do we have an ETA on the map? Much as I loved Karelia, it got old having to re-download the "final" version 5 times :lol

EDIT: I didn't get a "box is full" error or anything that I recall.