Why Islamists will win the war on drugs

[GtoRA2]

Originally posted by Mustaine
fixed it for you.

you may want to live in a Godless, lawless, anarchist society and you may even be deluded enough to think that it will work. I do not and will never agree with that.

As to guns, how the hell did you make that insane leap? and have you ever read a single of my posts before? I am pro-gun all the way and have always. I guess you just needed to find something you could try and assume about me.

It's funny I may be one of the most conservative republicans in here in my personal beliefs, but rarely am strongly vocal about it... in your reply you seem to make me sound like a whining liberal?!? I don't get it. it is the liberal hippy whiners that want drugs legalized. waaaaa I want to get high because I have a weak mind and can't deal with life. make it legal so I can!

Well you fixed it wrong; I am far from an anarchist, lol.

Societies need laws to protect us from each other to some degree, murder, rape, theft, drunken driving etc.

I just don’t need “guys” like you and the government telling me what I can and can’t do in my private life, see I have enough self control to not do hard drugs, I don’t even drink. I don’t need laws to protect myself from myself. Now if you don’t have the confidence in yourself I can see why you would want big government to protect you from yourself. (it won’t work BTW)

That’s why you’re the hypocrite, you want some things that can be dangerous to the individual banned for the false sense of security it gives you, you just don’t see it’s the same thing the anti gun people do. Guns are dangerous man, if you don’t think most people have the self control to not become a raving drug maniac, why do you trust them with guns? Me I am all for guns, and as sad as accidental gun deaths can be (I don’t give two ****s if some gang banger pops another as long as they do it where only their families are or I can shoot back) it’s the price I am willing to pay to have that right.  I am willing to pay the same price in death, over drugs, stupid people do stupid ****, some die, big government isn’t going to stop that, nor should it.

The drug problem in this country is worse then ever after long years of the bull**** war on drugs; drugs are easier to get then ever. You could do far more to prevent drug use with programs that show the true perils with hard drugs, and not the bull**** the government passes off as anti drug commercials that high school kids laugh at as they smoke their joint.

Free people have should have the choice to **** up their lives anyway they want. It is their life, and they pay the consequences.

Oh and all your bleating like a sheep who has seen a wolf and wants the sheep herder to stop having his fun with him and protect him are already mostly covered.

Driving while intoxicated is illegal in just about everywhere, it doesn’t matter what drug it is including booze.

I am not calling you a liberal, I will leave that for guys like BGB, I am just pointing out your disdain for personal freedom when its something you don’t like.

That’s not how freedom works Chief; you should not get to impose your will on me because you do not like something.  Unfortunately for this country we have far two many people like you who would chose “safety” even bull**** safety over true freedom. True freedom isn’t pretty at times, but that’s one of the prices.

[Mustaine]

Originally posted by GtoRA2
if you don’t think most people have the self control to not become a raving drug maniac, why do you trust them with guns?

because guns don't alter your state of mind artifically and affect your rational thought.

where we disagree is is this a law that inhibits our freedoms, or that as you stated:
"protect us from each other to some degree". I believe that is what drug laws do, you do not. fine. I feel I have stated my reasons clearly. It doesn't give me a false sense of security at all.

[lukster]

If we decriminalize drugs we're gonna need to rethink some other things. I believe there will be many more instances of people out of control on whatever the latest mind rot is on the street. We're gonna need a much bigger police force to control these Rodney King wannabes and bigger pockets to pay the police brutality suits that will no doubt ensue.

Or, we declare open season on out of control drug abusers. Anyone found to be threatening or endangering others can be put down on the spot by anyone with a gun, old west style. I kinda like this idea.

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by Charon
You mean like getting out of the oxygen tent when suffering from emphysema to light one up? Or still smoking after you’ve had a lung removed from cancer or a heart attack?

Charon

We had a guy at work, dragged oxygen around with him, could barely breath, still would go outside and smoke. My friend growing up had an uncle who would visit them now and then, he would sneak into the bathroom and drink the aftershave.

[GtoRA2]

Originally posted by Mustaine
because guns don't alter your state of mind artifically and affect your rational thought.

where we disagree is is this a law that inhibits our freedoms, or that as you stated:
"protect us from each other to some degree". I believe that is what drug laws do, you do not. fine. I feel I have stated my reasons clearly. It doesn't give me a false sense of security at all.

Yeah and mine is based on logic, and reason and a want for freedom.


Your's is based on a BS fear of drugs and druggies.  Look at the stats Charon posted.  Booze, kills far more then drugs, yet your not screaming for protection from that, guess that cause mommy says its ok.

all the people drunks have killed with their cars while their judgement and mind was artifically altered is EXACTLY the same thing, but in you mind they are not.................

Ready to admit freedom is to much for you yet? Your words are saying it already.

Logic is our friend,  well not YOUR friend...

[Mustaine]

show me the statistics of having all drugs legal then we'll talk statistics.


those stats are irrelevant and usless because it does not include the free and legal use of cocaine, heroin, crack, meth and so on.

if you truly think drug use would not rise if the drugs were suddenly made legal then no your argument is not based on logic.


you're sitting here actually trying to argue something hypothetical with current event statistics. who looks foolish there? that's like taking the crash statistics from today and applying them to if we all flew flying cars like the jetsons. the data is irrelevant.

[texace]

So why would drugs being legal be a bad thing? No, really, I'm comfused. Alcohol and cigarettes are legal and they're far more lethal than some other drugs out there. Hell, there's never been a recorded death from weed, period. Most deaths dealing with drugs are from people getting killed traffiking them around the country.

So where's the evil here?

[soda72]

Lets take a look at past experience with opium....

The Opium Wars

The effects on Chinese society were devestating. In fact, there are few periods in Chinese history that approach the early nineteenth century in terms of pure human misery and tragedy. In an effort to stem the tragedy, the imperial government made opium illegal in 1836 and began to aggressively close down the opium dens.

[Vudak]

Mustaine, I have to wonder...  How many of these drugs you abhor have you actually tried?

For the record, I've done pot, cocaine, ecstacy, rx's (basically low-yield heroin), acid, shrooms, alcohol, and various crushed pills.

Basically I'm missing crack, meth, and a few other oddballs.  But I know PLENTY of people who've done them all.

Of course, I'm not going around robbing people.  Or really breaking the law in any other way.  I'm not addicted to any of these things, and the only two I do with *any* regularity are pot and alcohol.  But doing the other ones a handful of times each hasn't ruined me...  It hasn't turned me violent, or made me a danger to society...  If anything the experiences have made me wiser and arguably more compassionate and understanding.

And as for your question about rehab places - when people hit rock bottom, they go voluntarily.  It's the same way with alcohol.  The strong-willed don't need it in the first place.  Same with alcohol.

I'm sorry, but you come off as some high and mighty individual who "knows" this "world" so well...  I have to ask...  How many crack houses have YOU spent time in?  How many raves have YOU gone to?  How much time have YOU put into REALLY walking in a user's shoes?  

As of now, it comes off as though you get all your information from documentaries.

Enlighten me.

- Edit - Soda jogged my memory - I've done Opium, too

[Mustaine]

I have not tried them other than pot myself.

I have seen my HS friends mother overdose. I have seen another friends brother go to jail for 5 years for drugs and gun charges. I have seen a friend drop out of college and lose all her friends being a coke head. I have seen my ex GF mother live of disability for manic depression and do all sorts of drugs daily, lose her mind in the middle of downtown, and we had to call the police to help find her. when they did she was totally parinoid and junk. I have had a gun pointed at me by a doped up stranger. I have had my 1/2 sister attempt suicide while high.

I am sure I could go on, but do I need to?

[GtoRA2]

Originally posted by Mustaine
I have not tried them other than pot myself.

I have seen my HS friends mother overdose. I have seen another friends brother go to jail for 5 years for drugs and gun charges. I have seen a friend drop out of college and lose all her friends being a coke head. I have seen my ex GF mother live of disability for manic depression and do all sorts of drugs daily, lose her mind in the middle of downtown, and we had to call the police to help find her. when they did she was totally parinoid and junk. I have had a gun pointed at me by a doped up stranger. I have had my 1/2 sister attempt suicide while high.

I am sure I could go on, but do I need to?

Yep your anti drug nanny/mommy protect me laws really saved those people didn't it.

Drugs might as well be legal, they are so easy to get they get right now, and cheap too.

[Nifty]

Originally posted by Mustaine
do you guys ever hear yourselves?
are you that dense that you compare the effects of caffine to that of cocaine or heroin? you truly believe that someone needing a caffine fix is in the same mental state as someone needing a crack fix?



if that is the rational of you people here I give up. you can't argue reason and logic with idjits.

Apparently as dense are you are to not realize where Saintsaw said he was and just what they can legally sell at the "coffee" shops in that country.
edited to remove your extraneous spacing.

[Mustaine]

on second thought gto nevermind, I haven't used the ignore feature since I was JB73...

[lazs2]

well... since you asked..  I don't know of any drug that I would make illegal for an adult to buy and use.

I see no problem with using the same restrictions on it that are on alcohol.

I don't care if there is a big tax revenue or not.... I do care that there would be less gangs making a profit off of it and that we could close down a couple of worthless agencies.  

I am not worried about someone who is a drug addict and is able to get as many drugs as he wants.

I am worried about a drug addict that can't get as many as he wants.


To be clear....  I think drugs (including alcohol) are evil when abused.   I was a drug addict and alcoholic for many years.

I see the war on drugs as not only hopeless but as making the problem worse and.... an insult to every free adult who should be able to make his own choices.

lazs

[Vudak]

Originally posted by Mustaine

if you truly think drug use would not rise if the drugs were suddenly made legal then no your argument is not based on logic.

So did everyone on these boards and everyone that they know run out to the gas station the day they turned 18 to buy a pack of smokes?

Of course not.

The people who would do it, will.  Those who won't, won't.

Money used for this "war on drugs" could be used on TRUTHFUL education.  All you need to do is show a few movies like Basketball Diaries or better yet, Requiem for a Dream in HS Health Class, maybe spend some cash on a trip to the methadone clinic, and you won't have too many kids trying the harder stuff.

Maybe even pay for some people who've lost it all to come in and talk to the kids about what they went through.  Honestly.  Not some police youth officer coming in with a load of BS.

OTOH, if all drugs were legalized, I am sure you would SEE an "explosion" of pot users.  But, really, I doubt there would be many "new subscribers."  Rather, you'd just finally see the millions of people who already do it.  And hold important jobs.  And do well at life.  And haven't ruined themselves.

Basically, walking through any major city's nightlife area on any given Saturday night, you'd see as many people babbling stoned as you already see babbling drunk.

As for the harder stuff...  I've had access to anything I want (as have you), all my life...  Some stuff I've tried, other's I've made a point not to.  Of the stuff I've tried, I've made sure I kept it a very, very, very rare indulgence.  There are many more like me.