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Offline FUNKED1

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« on: August 25, 2006, 11:46:54 AM »
Hell in a Very Small Place: The Siege of Dien Bien Phu

These guys put it all on the line to fight communist aggression, while America sat back and watched.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2006, 05:11:59 PM by Skuzzy »
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Offline BlueJ1

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« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2006, 11:47:32 AM »
I thought you were leaving? :)
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Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2006, 11:49:56 AM »
Nope, just posting less.  I won't have time to refute every neoconanderthal screed, so I have to pick my battles.
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Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2006, 11:55:50 AM »
I think it's rather funny that Funked thinks that the French were fighting the communists, as opposed to getting their tulips kicked out of the french colonies in vietnam.
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Offline AWMac

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« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2006, 11:56:37 AM »
~Touche~

Mac
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Offline soda72

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Re: Reading for Ignorant France-Bashers
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2006, 11:57:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
Hell in a Very Small Place: The Siege of Dien Bien Phu

These guys put it all on the line to fight communist aggression, while America sat back and watched.


Quote
Book Description
"The definitive account" (Saturday Review) of the battle that paved the way for American involvement in Vietnam.
The 1954 battle of Dien Bien Phu ranks with Stalingrad and Tet for what it ended (imperial ambitions), what it foretold (American involvement), and what it symbolized: A guerrilla force of Viet Minh destroyed a technologically superior French army, convincing the Viet Minh that similar tactics might prevail in battle with the U.S.


Interesting read....
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Offline lukster

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« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2006, 11:58:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
I think it's rather funny that Funked thinks that the French were fighting the communists, as opposed to getting their tulips kicked out of the french colonies in vietnam.


Beat me to it.
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Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2006, 12:01:52 PM »
I think it's rather funny that when the French fought them they were fighting a "colonial war" but when Americans fought the same exact enemy they were "fighting communism".  Please.
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Offline lukster

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« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2006, 12:05:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
I think it's rather funny that when the French fought them they were fighting a "colonial war" but when Americans fought the same exact enemy they were "fighting communism".   Please.


The french were fighting whoever resisted (just happedned to be the communist at the stage where they lost) to maintain their grip on their colonies which included Laos and Cambodia. The US had no colonial interests and were fighting only to prevent communist domination in the area.
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Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2006, 12:07:20 PM »
Spin it however you want, but the fact is that France fought Indochina communism earlier, and with much greater committment, than America did.
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Offline lukster

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« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2006, 12:09:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
Spin it however you want, but the fact is that France fought Indochina communism earlier, and with much greater committment, than America did.


Bottom line, we both lost to communism in Vietnam. However, the US did go on to whip the USSR. What did France do after 1954?
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Offline straffo

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« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2006, 12:13:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lukster
The french were fighting whoever resisted (just happedned to be the communist at the stage where they lost) to maintain their grip on their colonies which included Laos and Cambodia. The US had no colonial interests and were fighting only to prevent communist domination in the area.


You mean we were fighting some "comunistes Indochinois" when you were fighting "vietnameses comunists" ?

hmmm I must agree it's a huge difference :D
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Offline lukster

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« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2006, 12:16:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
You mean we were fighting some "comunistes Indochinois" when you were fighting "vitenameses comunists" ?

hmmm I must agree it's a huge difference :D


The difference was in the reason for fighting. One might argue that if not for French colonialism in that region the communists would never have gained a foothold.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/july/21/newsid_3894000/3894175.stm

"The Viet Minh was formed in 1941 as a nationalist party whose main aim was to free Vietnam from French control. Its Communist leader, Ho Chi Minh, declared Vietnamese independence on 2 September 1945."
« Last Edit: August 25, 2006, 12:21:15 PM by lukster »
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Offline MrBill

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« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2006, 12:32:53 PM »
Ok I'll Play.

First are you claiming that France lost Because America did not come to their Aid?
Bzzzttt America had already contributed more money and equipment than the French ... just because the French used it badly is not our fault.
Why should we bail them out again? We should have backed Ho in '46 and thrown those losers out then ... Would have saved everyone a lot of lives.

IIRC (this is just from memory, I didn't look it up to be sure) Of the 16 Battalions at Diem Bien Phu only ONE was regular French the rest were Foreign Legion or Colonial troops. Perhaps if the French tried to fight their own battles ... oh wait. ;)

Hell in a Very Small Place: The Siege of Diem Bien Phu was an excellent book, as was Street Without Joy ... perhaps a bit biased, but excellent never the less.
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Offline Airscrew

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« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2006, 12:35:18 PM »
more good reading

Len Deighton
Blitzkrieg: From the Rise of Hitler to the Fall of Dunkirk, 1979
Blood, Tears and Folly: An Objective Look at World War II, 1993
Fighter: The True Story of the Battle of Britain, 1977
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