A new way to Rank that means something

[NoBaddy]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
Playing games on a computer is not accomplishing anything. Period. The fact that people no longer perceive a difference between the real world, and a computer game, is probably the one thing about this game and it's community that anybody should be bothered by.

Gotta agree. Killjoy2, hang around long enough and you just might begin to understand. The "war", the perks, the K/D, etc., really has no meaning outside the moment. If that is the stuff that is fun for you, by all means...knock yourself out. For me, if I'm having fun...I win (and THAT is the point ).

[meddog]

How about turning the scoring system off?  I've always said that any scoring system, no matter how carefully it's conceived always increases the lack of teamwork or team play and nothing personal but SHawk is a prime example.  He is an expert at gaming the game and not knowing 1st hand exactly how he accomplishes his ranking, I have a pretty good idea but if i had to venture a guess, it probably consists of cherry picking, vulching, spawn camping, flying in hordes with only the fastest airplanes and other very low risk operations.  I mean really,  do you really think you would catch Shawk flying a Hurricane in a furball were you can't just put the pedal to the metal and run every time you get into a little trouble, were you actually have to fight to survive? I think not.  You will probably not catch him deacking and if he does not unless it's scored as an attack plane.  He probably only bombs depots with 4000 kg bombs and uses his pt boat rockets on beach front cities or the ships in the port when the risk of being killed is very, very low or non existant.  We call that "milk running" or "score padding".  Now he can can play his way ever bit as much as I can play mine so I'm not really complaining about how he plays the game but I use it an illustration to prove my point about the senselessness of the ranking /scoring system.  But unless they can come up with a system that can accurately measure a person's ability with out being able to pad ones score than I would prefere that they just get rid of that part of the programing and if people want to keep some kind of personal score, they can pull out a piece of paper and a pencil and have at it.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by meddog
How about turning the scoring system off?  I've always said that any scoring system, no matter how carefully it's conceived always increases the lack of teamwork or team play and nothing personal but SHawk is a prime example.  He is an expert at gaming the game and not knowing 1st hand exactly how he accomplishes his ranking, I have a pretty good idea but if i had to venture a guess, it probably consists of cherry picking, vulching, spawn camping, flying in hordes with only the fastest airplanes and other very low risk operations.  I mean really,  do you really think you would catch Shawk flying a Hurricane in a furball were you can't just put the pedal to the metal and run every time you get into a little trouble, were you actually have to fight to survive? I think not.  You will probably not catch him deacking and if he does not unless it's scored as an attack plane.  He probably only bombs depots with 4000 kg bombs and uses his pt boat rockets on beach front cities or the ships in the port when the risk of being killed is very, very low or non existant.  We call that "milk running" or "score padding".  Now he can can play his way ever bit as much as I can play mine so I'm not really complaining about how he plays the game but I use it an illustration to prove my point about the senselessness of the ranking /scoring system.  But unless they can come up with a system that can accurately measure a person's ability with out being able to pad ones score than I would prefere that they just get rid of that part of the programing and if people want to keep some kind of personal score, they can pull out a piece of paper and a pencil and have at it.

SHawk is NOT afraid to fight.   Again, back when SHawk had the Tour in which while in a fighter he never got shot down, I had a con on me.   He put his 5-6 kills in disregard and pitched in as a second con was coming in.   I returned the favor the very next hop.   SHawk doesn't game the game.   He's just damn good.    SHawk doesn't bomb cities and he rarely spawncamps.    As a Rook I can safely say that I have NEVER seen him in a PT.   "Assuming" seems to be the problem here which leaves the argument in a shambles to begin with, even MORE solidifying my post.

[hubsonfire]

Actually, Shawk does do those things, but he's also a pretty good cartoon pilot. The situation Karaya describes also matches my own experiences as a member of Shawk's squad, but he's still a scorewhoring weenie.

With regards to the scoring; as long as there's a static formula for calculating it, someone will figure that out and manipulate it. While HT's present setup may not be perfect, I'm guessing any other setup would eventually yield the same results. As far as I'm concerned, the stats page is useful for illustrating trends concerning my own actions in game, and that's about it. YMMV.

[lazs2]

Wow.. gotta agree with no bad here....

"hang around long enough and you just might begin to understand. The "war", the perks, the K/D, etc., really has no meaning outside the moment. If that is the stuff that is fun for you, by all means...knock yourself out. For me, if I'm having fun...I win (and THAT is the point )."

You know whenever you are in a fight if you win or not.   even if you get shot down.. the rest of the community knows it too...  I have never seen anyone that was highly ranked here that I would fear running into like some of the low ranked guys who are better sticks.    People that been around a while know who is good and...

If you can't figure out how you do then look at the stats page.

I would say that you can be pretty sure that you are doing ok tho if you fly timid in late war planes and end with at least a 10/1 kd or if you fly furball and into crowds in early war planes and finish with a 3/1... How you fly and what you fly makes a big difference.  the 10/1 guy might not be near as skilled as someone with a 2/1 kd who allways fights outnumbered.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Killjoy2
Spatula

The present ranking system does indeed reward living.

My observation is that the ranking system is too convoluted.  What if it took 10 minutes to figure out who was ahead in a basketball game?  

An instant result that anyone can quickly measure is a game.

But last time I looked it didn't matter.

Gone from the  computer for 10 days but the conversations are the same

From my perspective, that you need an external 'reward' system is problem number 1.  You end up trying to gauge your ability somehow against 1000 other players, all playing a bit differently, flying different planes, for different amounts of hours, at different times, against different players etc etc.  

There is no way to use that as a measuring system.  It has to be the reward you get from playing the game, not something determined by someone else.

The key for me everytime I fly AH, is when I shut down for the night, did I have fun.  That is the only reward I need from AH.  The second that stops happening, I'm done.  

So far my "Fun ranking" continues to be right at the top, so I keep coming back

[meddog]

Karaya my good friend long time no see.  I'm sure there are times Shawk will help others out but his score strongly indicates the type of game play that I listed above.  

Lets take his bombing scores; He has a bombing % of 1560%.  You can only get that by upping a single plane with a bomb large enough to destroy 12+ targets in a single drop and the only places you can get a hit like that is at the factories.  You can't get that kind of score bombing FH;s, BH's, Vh's, CV's or cities and I know cuz i'm a precision bomber, not a carpet bomber.  The most popular MO is upping a stuka with a 4000 kg bomb although unless he gets killed in one or kills some one in it there is no way to prove this.  He also doesn't have 1 air kill in a bomber which also indicates that he is probably only flying bombers in a safe zone.  He has a bombing % of 212.5 % in PT boats and you can only achieve that by using your rockets on some ground target. Again the most popular MO is to hit a beach front city or the stationary ships at an enemy port at a time when the acks and VH is down and no GV's around to kill you.  

As for fighters, why does he fly the D90 for the most part? Because he can run like the wind at the slightist trouble, it has centered mounted guns for easier shooting and too many people have watched how he operates at a enemy base.  He sits on his perch and dives in to cheery pick or vulch and and as soon as the opposition gets heavy he is off some were else where the risk factor is low.  Have you ever seen Shawk deack a field? Have you ever seen him bomb a CV?  Have you ever seen him in a hurricane or Zero, a plane that you just cant extend out of trouble?  And your probably right that he doesnt spawn camp at least not for the long term because a high kill/time ratio doesnt allow for long term spawn camping.  

does Shawk have some skill? Yes i'm sure he does.  Is he a gamer? his scores indicate most diffinately. MHO

And as for me I dont think i'm as good as my stats say because I do some of the same stuff he does just not at the same intensity as he does.  I tend to be more of a team player because i'll bomb cities, hangers and Cv's.  I'll deack a field even though i'm scoring my plane as a fighter and every round I dispense that isn't at a fighter is only hurting my score.

[lazs2]

meddog.. I think you prove the fact that you can fool the rank or score system but you can't fool the community.   I think some here would like to make it easier to fool the score and rank system.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[Killjoy2]

Two comments.

Shawk and scoring.  I always try to fly with Shawk when I can.  Just to start with I was interested in how does it.  Here's his secret.  He plays the whole game.  He bombs, he runs M3's and supplys. He flys several planes.  FW's and CHogs that I remember in particular.  He's in tanks and never afraid to jump into a fight. There isn't an aspect of the AH I haven't observed him doing.

2nd comment:
Its been mentioned that if I stay around long enough, I'll understand how the community works.  How long to I have to play to figure it out?  I've been online continuously from Warbirds 1.something.  

While I don't have Hitech's vantage of financial and coading, I do have one piece of info he may not have.  I have been playing the game continuously for more years than I care to remember and I've experienced the changes in game play and community.  (I don't know how much Hitech plays.)  

When you are inventing and running a business like AH, one of the problems you have is being too close to the game.  You can get de-sensitized.  

Those of us who have been here a real long time also have valid input from a different point of view.  

Now, having said this much let me also mention the deep respect I have for the AH crew and Hitech.  He's accomplished what few have been able to do, even when they had a budget of millions.  That is something.  

Any suggestions I have are only suggestions.  I only fly borrowed cartoon airplanes.  Hitech owns them.

OK so thats more than two comments.

[NoBaddy]

Originally posted by Killjoy2
2nd comment:
Its been mentioned that if I stay around long enough, I'll understand how the community works.  How long to I have to play to figure it out?  I've been online continuously from Warbirds 1.something.  

While I don't have Hitech's vantage of financial and coading, I do have one piece of info he may not have.  I have been playing the game continuously for more years than I care to remember and I've experienced the changes in game play and community.  (I don't know how much Hitech plays.)  

Ehem...

That was my comment and the point of it was not about the "community". Instead, it was about goals. Some want to be the "best" virtual fighter pilot, others want to "win the war". Others simply set personal goals. Those that have been around long enough, usually figure out that in the real or the virtual world, none of the above mean anything. In the end, the only thing that does mean something is "fun". If you ain't havin' it....you lose.

BTW, when it comes to comparing online "chops", I am into my 16th year (yes, I really don't have much of a life ). Hence, I just might have a couple of clues you don't. BTW, been there and done the score monkey thing....bored me to tears.

[Waffle]

Originally posted by NoBaddy


 BTW, been there and done the score monkey thing....bored me to tears.

He meant trying to have a high rank. Not having the single lowest score. And I ain't talking about golf where a low score is better...lol

[Innominate]

Originally posted by Killjoy2
He plays the whole game.  He bombs, he runs M3's and supplys. He flys several planes.  FW's and CHogs that I remember in particular.  He's in tanks and never afraid to jump into a fight. There isn't an aspect of the AH I haven't observed him doing.

This is the secret to ranking.  You don't even have to be all that good, you just have to do everything.

[NoBaddy]

Originally posted by Waffle BAS
He meant trying to have a high rank. Not having the single lowest score. And I ain't talking about golf where a low score is better...lol

Wiffle...

You still hangin' round that gal with the big balls from the con? Meybe it has 'bent' your mind...still tryin to figure out what the heck you are talking about.

[Howitzer]

Originally posted by Killjoy2
Howitzer,

This kind of comment bothers me.  

Bruv119 actually accomplished something. There's no reason to ridicule him.  This type of comment goes to the AH community problem with juvenile behavior in the main.  Linked to it is a ridicule of anything honorable.

"We laugh at honour and are shocked to find traitors in our midst."  C.S. Lewis

Worrying about "traitors" in a game that allows you to change teams is about as silly as this post.  Lighten up Francis, no one is stopping you from picking your way to a high rank.  Think about this C.S Lewis:  you are paying 15 bucks in an attempt to experience an online environment of honor and maturity residing in a video game.  That is something to be shocked and laugh about.  

Besides, I could've said queen of the winter carnival, but I was making an attempt at maturity and honor.  In any case, I do think HT should have a winter carnival.   Could be great fun.  

[Grayeagle]

If it's fun for you to try an think up new scoring systems .. jam on

NB hit the nail on the head .. fun is what it all boils down to.

Personally, I could give a rats behind about the whole concept of 'rank.'

I enjoy the fight.
That's why I fly AH.
I still get that good feelin when I manage to sling some lead into a fat juicy bandit up close an personal like.

Landing? .. ya .. ok .. if I have nothin else to shoot at or can get to.
After all .. you can 'land' offline.. where's the fun?

I still need to improve my shooting ..my SA is ok most of the time, I am gettin a feel for the spit and its variants finally, nearing the end of this camp. The scorin system in place validates how I think I am doin.

I do wish I could fly more.

I *am* having fun

-GE