Author Topic: Parents charge son for borrowing car, killed in jail (Read 1554 times)

Elfie · « **Reply #45 on:** August 28, 2006, 07:13:33 PM »

http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/423466/821949

An arrest has been made in the death of this teen.

A 25 year-old Auckland man has been charged with the murder of 17-year-old Liam Ashley who was beaten to death in the back of a prison van on Thursday night.

Also, it appears that this incident was not the first time this young man had been in serious trouble with his parents.

From the same article:

His family, who are devastated at losing their fourth and youngest child, say the charge was meant to act as a deterrent.

"This was the last resort, not the first resort. His tragic death is devastating to our family who are going through all the emotions possible," says Ashley's uncle, Brett Ashley.

Seems to me, the parents put their trust in *the system* and the system failed to protect this young man from a violent prisoner.

wooley · « **Reply #46 on:** August 28, 2006, 08:12:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nilsen
...thank cod for that.

Man, you Norwegians really love your fish, don't you.

Fishu · « **Reply #47 on:** August 29, 2006, 06:17:29 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lukster
My youngest son is 23. He's old enough to learn from a few days in jail.

What about the record? It could totally ruin his chances to get any kind of high security job. For example he couldn't get a job from an airport.

BTW · « **Reply #48 on:** August 29, 2006, 06:19:53 AM »

Maybe if he takes things that don't belong to him, he shouldn't be working security in an airport?

Fishu · « **Reply #49 on:** August 29, 2006, 06:56:04 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by BTW
Maybe if he takes things that don't belong to him, he shouldn't be working security in an airport?

I'm not sure that "stealing" parents car is serious enough. If I had a kid, I wouldn't want to ruin his chances in life by giving him a criminal record of "stealing" my car. I'd be sure as hell pissed off, but giving the kid more trouble doesn't help at all, on the contrary. If the kid wouldn't stop "borrowing" my car, then I would tell him to fk off from my house - it is still a better choice than throwing into a jail.

lazs2 · « **Reply #50 on:** August 29, 2006, 08:15:56 AM »

Yep... seems this kid was a spoiled brat who never learned from any conventional methods...

His parents did the right thing by giveing him a little jail time now before he figured out how to earn a lot of jail time.

Unfortunately... the system screwed up... It happens... It happens a lot more in universities but... it happens.

So now you all want the parents to suffer a guilt trip. What about the parents who let their kid go to a university and he dies at a frat party? Should they be flogged and made to feel guilty for allowing their child to face such dangers as a university?

Again.. you guys who are so quick to condem the parents... have you ever been to jail? How bout a university party? A night out driniking in a stolen car?

Let's compare the danger aspect.... I have experianced all of the above... I would say that the stolen car or university party have the highest risk factor. How fast did you go in the stolen car? I have been in more fights at univesity parties than in jail.

What a bunch of wussies.

The parents should sue.. the system screwed up.

lazs

aztec · « **Reply #51 on:** August 29, 2006, 03:56:54 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nilsen
The kid messed up.

Parents messed up.

Judge messed up for allowing the justice system to be used as a nanny for parents that could not do the job properly themselves. He should have used his brain and thrown the case out the door.

The transporter messed up.

The killer messed up.

A long list of cockups leading to this.

You're making waaaaay too much sense for this forum Nilsen....plz try to refrain from open mindedness in the future, it's a no no here.

lazs2 · « **Reply #52 on:** August 30, 2006, 08:56:11 AM »

nelson is right except... I still see no evidence that the parents screwed up..

The system says that you can't hit your children and that you have to send em to a public school and that they have "rights" even as minors...

then... when the parents use the system and say... "ok" you guys screwed him up we will use your method of punishment and try that"

You guys are all saying that the parents screwed up.... between the legal system and the school system... the parents have less and less comparative input.

lazs

Chairboy · « **Reply #53 on:** August 30, 2006, 09:06:07 AM »

I think the parents willingly gave up parental authority and tried to use the justice system to abrogate their responsibility. It is unacceptable that he was killed, and the transport is obviously responsible for that, but like with air crashes, this was clearly a 'chain of avoidable errors'. The parents decision was one of the links in that chain.

lazs2 · « **Reply #54 on:** August 30, 2006, 09:16:33 AM »

sooo... you guys are saying that the government should have less control over our children?

I agree. I am for vouchers.

lazs

Yeager · « **Reply #55 on:** August 30, 2006, 09:35:52 AM »

this was clearly a 'chain of avoidable errors'. The parents decision was one of the links in that chain.
====
this train of thought is foolish. The parents respected and upheld the rule of law and they are part of the chain of failure? With your way of thinking then the parents should be held criminally liable in their sons death. What foolishness.

Gunthr · « **Reply #56 on:** August 30, 2006, 09:42:37 AM »

no doubt the parents were a bit naive or ignorant about jails and prisons. But I don't fault them for trying to get thier kid "scared straight." My dad let me spend a couple days in jail when I was 17, and it was a hard dose of reality for me, and I did straighten up.

When the parents are done sueing the living ***** out of that NZ Corrections Department, maybe they can find a way to move on with their lives.

Elfie · « **Reply #57 on:** August 30, 2006, 11:46:45 AM »

Chairboy, some kids just dont respond to their parents due to their own rebellious attitudes. My own son was this way. Before you say the rebellious attitude is the fault of the parents....just wait a few years until your kids become teenagers. Virtually all teenagers go through some sort of rebellion against their parents at some point.

My sons rebellion wasnt just against his parents, it was against all authority figures. Some kids have a tougher time with it than others do. Due to the parents comment that sending this kid to jail was a last resort, not a first resort leads me to believe that this young man had problem with rebellion and his parents pulled the tough love card in an attempt to get this young man to straighten up.

Just some food for thought.

Chairboy · « **Reply #58 on:** August 30, 2006, 11:53:05 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Elfie
Virtually all teenagers go through some sort of rebellion against their parents at some point.

Right, but "virtually none" of teenagers end up being sent to jail by their parents.

He borrowed her car without permission. That was the reason they had him arrested. They didn't have him arrested for assault, didn't have him arrested for burglary, nothing like that.

You see "last resort" and assume that this is the final straw in a litany of terrible offenses.

I see "last resort", and based on what the arrest was for and the fact that he didn't have any criminal record, and I see a last resort that was a lot closer to the 'first resort' of most parents.

BTW, I went through a rebellious phase when I was a teen. And I borrowed the car w/o permission. Oh, and my parents didn't send me to jail, they grounded my bellybutton and talked to me about acceptable behavior, consequences, and what would happen if I pulled a stunt like that when i was an adult. I haven't stolen a car since, believe it or not.

lukster · « **Reply #59 on:** August 30, 2006, 12:27:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Chairboy
Right, but "virtually none" of teenagers end up being sent to jail by their parents.

He borrowed her car without permission. That was the reason they had him arrested. They didn't have him arrested for assault, didn't have him arrested for burglary, nothing like that.

You see "last resort" and assume that this is the final straw in a litany of terrible offenses.

I see "last resort", and based on what the arrest was for and the fact that he didn't have any criminal record, and I see a last resort that was a lot closer to the 'first resort' of most parents.

BTW, I went through a rebellious phase when I was a teen. And I borrowed the car w/o permission. Oh, and my parents didn't send me to jail, they grounded my bellybutton and talked to me about acceptable behavior, consequences, and what would happen if I pulled a stunt like that when i was an adult. I haven't stolen a car since, believe it or not.

How do you know that wasn't the tenth time he'd taken the car? He might have been stealing money and doing drugs too. Fact remains none of us know how bad it was. All of us know the parents had every right to expect that their son wouldn't be murdered in jail. We aren't talking a federal prison here.