F6F Vs. F4U

[bkbandit]

This is one i have had on my mind for a while now. I spent all of may and june in a f4u, but for the last month i have been in f6f and wow, its great. They have the same ammo load same gun package carry the same amount of ord. And o yeah.. they can both land and take off from cv:lol  At speed f4u has a better roll , its faster, depending on the model u have a semi bubble cockpit, u have dive brakes(landing gears up to 400 mph). BUt hellcat has better accel, u can get low and slow and still move while a f4u is in trouble, hellcat has a bird cage cockpit, it isnt no bubble but the bars arent bad and the rear view is better then the f4u. F6F maxs at 18k at only 380 which in my world is horrible, but when ur at that alt the fight is under u, the roll rate is good on this plane and unlike the f4u ur roll rate is good slow as well as fast. Hellcat also gets more time on a full tank. BOth of them dive like hell(i like f6f better) can do high speed turns well and can take hits.

If i had to pick, i really love f4u but i have to go in the F6F, that accel is just to horrible to enjoy that speed advantage, in a drag f6f wins. I have fought plenty of f4us in a f6f, low hi u name it, its f6f. And yes i have baged f4u4's. THis might be that im fightin lesser pilots but wit the time i spent its in both fighter its f6f. Unless f4u could accel faster it will always be the f6f.

Got alot of big time f4u guys and guys that just love the blue planes in general, i would love to see what u guys think.

Lets try to keep the comparison between f6f and f4u1 f4u1c and d, maybe later we can through the 4 in.

0 f4u
1 f6f

[Yeager]

F6F is better "overall" ride in AH and dweeb friendly.  Thr F4Us tend to require a bit more experience in game to do well with.

[skysnipr]

I like the F4U for attacking shore bases, just because it carrys two more rockets than the F6F. Not much of a difference, but if you're not expecting fighter opposition anyway, you might as well have the extra rockets. As for fighting aircraft off carriers, I prefer the Seafire, but since this is between the F6F and the F4U, I'll leave it at that.

[Saxman]

I think it's been stated that the F6F's climb and acceleration is slightly overmodelled and the F4U SHOULD out-accelerate and climb the F6F (lighter and less drag with just as much engine power). I also think I saw a post by WW somewhere around here that the F4U starts getting sluggish at higher speeds in the game, whereas it's really the F6F that should.

In capable hands the F4U SHOULD be able to get a shot first in a turn fight because of the Corsair's ability to get her flaps into play sooner (sometimes I think the Corsair's flaps work a little TOO well, as occaisonally I've dropped a notch to get that last bit of lead, and my nose pops TOO far so I lose the shot picture). I'm going from memory off another WW post, here, but IIRC their turning circles and rates are close enough that any advantage to the F6F is minimal at best. In addition, the instantaneous turn of the Corsair should not be overlooked, as I THINK she has the advantage in initial turn and it's only once you get into a sustained, low-speed turning fight that the Hellcat's edge comes into play.

I won't argue with you on stability, as I still spin my Hog occaisonally (generally if I get too heavy with simultaneous rudder and back-stick. For some reason snap-rolls to the left always end with me inverted) and under some very unexpected circumstances (I spun tonight pulling into the vertical at ~400mph) but the Corsair can STILL take a pretty heavy hand on the stick and follow some pretty eratic maneuvers so long as you know WHEN to back off (like the moment you get that first wing dip).

Durability is questionable, as I think the Corsair is a bit porked with pieces being blown off under VERY light damage (I've had long-range .30cal hits blow off my wings ). The F4U SHOULD have the advantage here, but I don't know of anyone who's put this to the test. That being said, I think both planes seem to have a bit of a glass jaw.

Internal fuel range I don't even bother worrying about. More gas means more weight and a less maneuverable plane, and in both the F6 AND F4 when dealing with a MA overrun by Spixteens I want to fly as light as I can and still have fuel to fight. I only carry more than 50% internal in a -1D if drop tanks are unavailable, and even then never more than 75%. The exception is if I'm packing a full ordinance load, which I have no problems loading full fuel since I'll just burn off about half anyway on the climb out to my usual approach alt.  If I'm going to BnZ I keep my external fuel, but once I need to start turning I know I've got enough gas I can cut my tank and still make it home. Also, I think F4UDOA posted something that indicates the F4U actually gets MORE range because of her greater speed, especially at cruise. I know I've been able to make it at least a sector on 1/8 internal in the 1D at ~5-7k alt under max cruise settings.

To follow your example of personal experience vs, I've shot down 12 F6Fs this tour, and died to 3. One I was forced into a HO situation by an enemy F4U that joined the fight late (I SHOULD have had the F6, but when I got saddled up his F4 buddy tried to HO and I was forced to break off before I could fire. Both me and the F6 extended, reversed, and to keep the F4 from getting a good shot or slipping in behind me I was driven into an anglethat  put me into a HO on the F6. I lit his engine up but as I passed over my tail popped off. I HATE dying like that  ). On the second a Zeke made a high-deflection shot that clipped off the outer half of my left wing, and while I was trying to recover the F6 that I was sparring with (once again, I had the shot but lost it when I tried to evade the Zeke) circled in behind me. I can't remember the third one, (I THINK I had just recorded a kill and he circled in behind me before I could evade) but certainly, I WOULD have had the other two without the intervention of their buddy.

[bkbandit]

we already figured out that the f6f is not the 3 or the 5 but a middle of the field model(i would still like f6f-3 and f6f-5 both instead of one). ANd we also figured out that the f4u is nuetered. I REALLLY wish they would fix it, but again... "f4u is too uber, its not fair". BUt for now likes deal with our current models.

I just got out of the m/a, had a real good run wit the f6f, but of course im a idiot and dont have the film runing:furious . I baged 4 seafires and a ki84 and still had ammo and fuel, but those ltar guys slamed the cv so i was done for that sortie. AS for her wiegh wat i do is take 50% and take a drop tank, the tank gets me where i need to go wit a good alt and e situation, alot of times i have half of the tank left. A problem wit the f4u is SA, i came up on one yesterday(recorded my one kill ) and was watchin his views, he only saw me once and the rest of the fight he must have been useing the force or somethin cause the last thing he saw is a flash and water(in this fight i was n f4u4). i remember another one i had against an f4u1(i had a f6f) he was chaseing me as i was goin to land, i just waited and rolled up, shot by then tryes to play the turn game and makes a real tight hi g turn, hi yo-yo and by the time i came down he had no e at all, just another dead f4u. Wit alittle more accel he could have atleast had more time to evade but that waste of a pratte and whintey didnt pull him away.

As for dweeb friendly i doubt it. YEs she is reallyyy honest in the stall and has a great gun package but un like the spit u have flaps to work, and against another spit a full flap circle will kill u. F6F asawell as F4U need some solid acm and e mangement, how many f6f's have u killed tryin to out turn u. I think its a good plane to learn wit, it gives u many options. fighter sweeps,jabo, fleet defense it can handle it, the only thing it doesnt do well is high alt, thats where f4u shines but still wit the crap accel a p51(i have done this many times) will jump on top of u and chase u to the deck.

Saxman how do u check that stat, i want to see wat im doin wit that f6f. Do i assume that u pick f4u??

And as far as seafire, its a cool plane and when a mission calls for it i fly it(i havent flown this thing since last month), but i dont like the gun package and the plane is seriously made of paper, but its big advantage that it has over other spits is that it doesnt break under hi g's. I have seen many spit 16s fall apart in front of my face trying to dive and turn hard(this is also a way to get them off ur back).

[SAS_KID]

My F4u seems to pwn F6f's. This maybe a problem.

[Saxman]

Well seeing as how they haven't fixed the overmodelled HO-icanes, and Spixteens and ElGays are running rampant unperked, I don't see why they'd let uberness stop them from fixing the plane to handle the way it SHOULD play.

Visibility with the F4U isn't really a HUGE problem so long as you set your views right. Actually, I find the F4U-1's birdcage actually has a bit BETTER view straight back than the bubble on the -1D/C/ and -4. I think the situation you describe speaks more to poor view setup and bad SA on behalf of the pilot than any failure of the Corsair's design (also partly a modelling issue, as the Corsair's rear view wasn't that much different than the F6).

I've largely stepped away from the -1. She's definately too sluggish for me, and I think the lack of power shows in any type of extended turning fight when she's heavy with gas so I'm spending most of my time in the 1D (which is closer to the 1A we're wanting, anyway, so it's a good ride to transition from) with occaisonal sorties in a -4. The F6Fs I've killed have been a mix of small and large furballs with an occaisonal 1vs1 encounter (which in my experience are a rarity, as generally I don't see an F6F unless it's part of a massive carrier raid). Some caught napping with high speed passes, some while maneuvering at mid to low speeds. The key for the F4U is either ending the fight quickly, or taking advantage of her E-dumping ability to get her flaps into play before the F6F can reduce enough speed

As far as Spits...

Seafires, Spit VIIIs and XIVs really don't seem to have the overwhelming advantage of the other marks (Spit VIIIs I have my best k/d vs Spits this tour at 6:1). I think the effect of the weight of the carrier gear is REALLY telling in the Seafire. The Spit XIV just doesn't perform as well at low altitude, and in general gives up too much as a turn-fighter compared to the other Marks. I don't really have an explanation for the Spit VIII, but it seems those are always my easiest Spit kills. Pilot-dependent, Spit Is are fairly easily dealth with as well because the F4U and F6F just so drastically outmuscle them. I just don't ever SEE any, or someone else gets to them first. Spit IX and XVI are by FAR the most dangerous marks, although against both I've used gear and flaps to great effect to cut inside and get a shot. I've forced a stalemate on Spixteens by dumping full flaps and gear and dragging him into the turning circle

Meh. P-51s I have no fear (one tour I had 20 Pony D kills and no deaths). If he has the advantage and stays high and fast I just keep dodging until I get support, an exit opportunity, or he screws up and lets me get on top of him and reverse the position. Otherwise I make him turn. A turning Pony that loses too much speed and altitude is a dead Pony unless he tries to run (which is what the majority of 51s do when encountering a co-alt con).

As far as scoring... From the Scores page use the Kill Stats in Extended Format option. That lets you see ALL your kills (regular scoring doesn't show everything). Lets you see how many kills you have in a particular aircraft, how many of them you've killed how many of that fighter have killed you, and how many times you've died in it (counts deaths only, I think, not bails, ditches or disco's). Also shows total kills, total deaths, and kills and deaths to each country.

[bkbandit]

i agree the f4u1 cockpit is better but the accel is just horrible. 51s have a bad rep cause the noobs that fly them, they think it can out turn anythin and try and get hammered, i use the f4us e dumping ability against it, gets slow and just sit on top, take my time, wit the crap accel he aint goin no where, hes below u(he prob already tryed to dive away) and hes turnin circles, u can take ur time or ur buddy will have him. F4U gets slow u noe it and u have to make sure u have time to build e back up or u are in a situation where u are safe where u are(example hitin ground targets wit a bunch of friendly green over head). Only one time today i would have rather had f4u, when this p47(i am 16k hes about 19) dives donw and tryes to ho, simple stick and rudder movement defeats his attack around and balst the wep, ended up chaseing him up hill(he had the e from his climb) 2.0k 3.0k then it stoped but as soon as i went up to 18k im finished and have to come back down, that bum got away(51 or f4u kill that bum

).

Spit 16 is dagnerous but it is slow and cant take the hi g's, i like goin fast so i make a pass and hi yo- yo if i dont get him a leave myself wit enuff to set up for another run. It rolls real good it turns real good it goes slow real go it accels good it has good views. BUt imo the guns suck and the thing is litly armoured, i have had many spits hit the ground from a pilot wound from a sparkle of 50s. I like seafire better cause it can dive and not break to bits, imo has better guns. As for wieght i fly heavy planes so i wont feel it.

[bozon]

As much as I love the F6F, the F4u as modeled in AH is simply better in almost every aspect. The worst thing about the F6F is the roll rate. The secons is that you are slower than spit 8 and only a little faster than spit 5 or a N1K. Still, it is a fun ride.

The real life advantages of the Hellcat over the corsair were not in performance but in areas which were critical in RL but are irrelevant to the game.

Bozon

[Widewing]

Originally posted by bozon
As much as I love the F6F, the F4u as modeled in AH is simply better in almost every aspect.

Not anymore... Since the drag model change the F6F has been transformed. It can match the F4U-1D in turn radius and acceleration. The Hellcat holds the edge in turn rate. It also climbs a bit better and our testing shows that it holds a slight edge in zoom-climb. It gives up some on roll rate, but rudder speeds it up considerably. One area where the F6F holds an advantage is in maneuverability in a high-speed dive. In contrast, the F4U-1D is faster at all altitudes.

In a straight-up fight with equal pilots, the F6F-5 and F4U-1D are so closely matched that there is little to choose between them.

My regards,

Widewing

[Shuckins]

Widewing,

I've always felt that the F6F was undermodelled in terms of speed.  Have any changes been made in that regard?  The -5 Hellcat was capable of breaking 400mph in real life, but I've never been able to get better than 380 in Aces High.

Regards, Shuckins

[bkbandit]

Originally posted by Shuckins
Widewing,

I've always felt that the F6F was undermodelled in terms of speed.  Have any changes been made in that regard?  The -5 Hellcat was capable of breaking 400mph in real life, but I've never been able to get better than 380 in Aces High.

Regards, Shuckins

Really can u get any proof of that, if f6f could hit 400mph level its a monster, but then that means that f4u1d has to go 405-415. The only time i seen f4u1d fly that fast is when i was in a room wit wind, i have read also that 51d could get close to 500mph, i have seen this in the same room wit wind, and no it wasnt no monster winds it was in one of those h2h rooms taylored to realism.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Shuckins
Widewing,

I've always felt that the F6F was undermodelled in terms of speed.  Have any changes been made in that regard?  The -5 Hellcat was capable of breaking 400mph in real life, but I've never been able to get better than 380 in Aces High.

Regards, Shuckins

The best I ever saw in AH2 is 386 mph @ 21,600 feet.

However, when tested by TAIC (Technical Air Intelligence Command) in 1944, a standard F6F-5 attained 409 mph @ 21,600 feet. Below is an excerpt from the test report (comparing the F6F-5 to the A6M5 Zero). I have the entire report in .pdf format.



My regards,

Widewing

[bkbandit]

So in the speed deparment our f6f is closer to the f6f3 then right? Why is our f6f5 so slow, u have it in black and white, wheres my speed:mad: . If its there in black and white why dont we have it in the game??

Widewing always has the right info when u need it:aok . That guy must have a doctrine or somethin.

[F4UDOA]

The question I would have about the F6F-5 in various speed test is this.

What was the condition of the airplane? Does the F6F-5 do 400+MPH with pylons and rocket rails or was that test in the clean condition?

The F4U-1D speed with Pylons is in the 410-415MPH range. What is the F6F-5 speed with external stores pylons?

FYI,

I just tripped over this in Corky Meyers new book listing all of his Flight Journal Articals. This is an excerpt from his F7F review in August of 2002.

The first experimental XF7F-1 Tigercat had the 2,000hp Pratt & Whitney R-2800-10B engine. This was the Hellcat's standard production engine, and it continued Grumman's policy of not installing an untried engine in a new aircraft. The Tigercat, which was 71mph faster than the Hellcat and had twice its rate of climb, easily met the Navy's requirements of 451mph at 21,000 feet.

The biggest problem I have with the F6F performance is that the airspeed indicator of this airplane was so unrealiabe that it was doubtful that any F6F pilot ever really new how fast they were going. Even the "fix" of this problem caused an even greater airspeed error than before except this time it was indicating to 17Knots too fast instead of 15 knots too slow.

I have Vought Documents showing the test of the F4U-1 Speed in 1943 with radio towers used for calibration. They knew exactly how fast the F4U was at all alt and indications. Grumman either did not know or was reluctant to say how fast the F6F actually was. By the time of the F4U-5 the airspeed inicator had 0 MPH error throught the entire speed range so the technology certainly was there for Grumman.


Here is the link

F7F by Corky Myer