Author Topic: Man Forced to remove Arabic t-shirt  (Read 2173 times)

Offline john9001

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Man Forced to remove Arabic t-shirt
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2006, 02:34:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by wooley
Invalid arguement - remember the whole premise of why we consider our society better than theirs - and one of the major justifcations for 5 years of interventionist foreign policy - is we can wear t-shirts with pictures of Mohammed on them if we want to.


but , wooly, have you no respect for islam , which forbids idolatry?

Offline Sandman

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Man Forced to remove Arabic t-shirt
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2006, 02:38:12 PM »
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Originally posted by Shifty
Start with yourself.

The guy had the freedom of expression to wear the tee-shirt.

The airline had the right to deny his access to thier aircraft.

Your the one who thinks only one side had rights or freedoms in this case. You have not given one side the same consideraton you gave the other. In fact you refered to the side you dissagree with as racist for practicing their rights. It's the companies right, not yours ,  to determine whats good , bad , safe or un-safe, for their business. They get to make that decision. Just like the guy that decided to wear the tee-shirt  had every right to make his decision.

 Nobody had their freedoms or rights violated. The system worked. You seem to be the one who wants to one side to steamroll over the other. So question your own understanding of freedoms and rights , before you make knee jerk accusations against America.


Don't let the fact that airports aren't necessarily privately owned and the fact that the TSA are government employees muddy your point. ;)
sand

Offline Gunslinger

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Man Forced to remove Arabic t-shirt
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2006, 03:01:37 PM »
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Originally posted by Sandman
Don't let the fact that airports aren't necessarily privately owned and the fact that the TSA are government employees muddy your point. ;)


and don't let facts get in the way of yours

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He said he had cleared security at John F Kennedy airport for a flight back to his home in California when he was approached by two men who wanted to check his ID and boarding pass.

After a difficult exchange with airline staff, Mr Jarrar was persuaded to wear another T-shirt bought for him at the airport shop.

Offline Sandman

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Man Forced to remove Arabic t-shirt
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2006, 03:13:44 PM »
You missed the point, Guns.

At airports, our rights and freedoms are often a controversial topic because airports are not privately owned and security is provided by the government.

But to answer your post...

Quote
Raed Jarrar said security officials warned him his clothing was offensive after he checked in for a JetBlue flight to California on 12 August.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2006, 03:29:31 PM by Sandman »
sand

Offline Slash27

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Man Forced to remove Arabic t-shirt
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2006, 03:26:15 PM »
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Originally posted by Sandman
Don't let the fact that airports aren't necessarily privately owned and the fact that the TSA are government employees muddy your point. ;)



 Pretty sure the pilot wouldnt let this idiot on. Are the pilots in on the plot to steal our liberties too?

Offline Shifty

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Man Forced to remove Arabic t-shirt
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2006, 03:28:41 PM »
Copied from link. After a difficult exchange with airline staff, Mr Jarrar was persuaded to wear another T-shirt bought for him at the airport shop.


I find it amusing how pesky rights and freedoms can be for some of you people when they apply to all equally.:huh

JG-11"Black Hearts"...nur die Stolzen, nur die Starken

"Haji may have blown my legs off but I'm still a stud"~ SPC Thomas Vandeventer Delta1/5 1st CAV

Offline Sandman

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Man Forced to remove Arabic t-shirt
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2006, 03:29:59 PM »
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Raed Jarrar said security officials warned him his clothing was offensive after he checked in for a JetBlue flight to California on 12 August.
sand

Offline Holden McGroin

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Man Forced to remove Arabic t-shirt
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2006, 03:31:37 PM »
Did they warn him and then force him to remove said shirt, or did they warn him that the airline might require a more neutral shirt?
Holden McGroin LLC makes every effort to provide accurate and complete information. Since humor, irony, and keen insight may be foreign to some readers, no warranty, expressed or implied is offered. Re-writing this disclaimer cost me big bucks at the lawyer’s office!

Offline Sandman

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Man Forced to remove Arabic t-shirt
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2006, 03:31:49 PM »
Here's the thing though... if the shirt simply said "We Will Not Be Silent" and only said it in english, no one would have made a fuss.

They got their panties in a wad because of the arabic.
sand

Offline Shifty

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Man Forced to remove Arabic t-shirt
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2006, 03:35:00 PM »
Security did their job. They warned him.  What's your point?

The Airline staff are the ones that advised him to change shirts if he wanted to fly.

JG-11"Black Hearts"...nur die Stolzen, nur die Starken

"Haji may have blown my legs off but I'm still a stud"~ SPC Thomas Vandeventer Delta1/5 1st CAV

Offline Sandman

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Man Forced to remove Arabic t-shirt
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2006, 03:42:04 PM »
Raed Jarrar's Story

I went to JFK in the morning to catch my Jet Blue plane to California. I reached Terminal 6 at around 7:15 am, issued a boarding pass, and checked all my bags in, and then walked to the security checkpoint. For the first time in my life, I was taken to a secondary search . My shoes were searched, and I was asked for my boarding pass and ID. After passing the security, I walked to check where gate 16 was, then I went to get something to eat. I got some cheese and grapes with some orange juice and I went back to Gate 16 and sat down in the boarding area enjoying my breakfast and some sunshine.

At around 8:30, two men approached me while I was checking my phone. One of them asked me if I had a minute and he showed me his badge, I said: "sure". We walked some few steps and stood in front of the boarding counter where I found out that they were accompanied by another person, a woman from Jet Blue.

One of the two men who approached me first, Inspector Harris, asked for my id card and boarding pass. I gave him my boarding pass and driver's license. He said "people are feeling offended because of your t-shirt". I looked at my t-shirt: I was wearing my shirt which states in both Arabic and English "we will not be silent". You can take a look at it in this picture taken during our Jordan meetings with Iraqi MPs. I said "I am very sorry if I offended anyone, I didnt know that this t-shirt will be offensive". He asked me if I had any other T-shirts to put on, and I told him that I had checked in all of my bags and I asked him "why do you want me to take off my t-shirt? Isn't it my constitutional right to express myself in this way?" The second man in a greenish suit interfered and said "people here in the US don't understand these things about constitutional rights". So I answered him "I live in the US, and I understand it is my right to wear this t-shirt".
Then I once again asked the three of them : "How come you are asking me to change my t-shirt? Isn't this my constitutional right to wear it? I am ready to change it if you tell me why I should. Do you have an order against Arabic t-shirts? Is there such a law against Arabic script?" so inspector Harris answered "you can't wear a t-shirt with Arabic script and come to an airport. It is like wearing a t-shirt that reads "I am a robber" and going to a bank". I said "but the message on my t-shirt is not offensive, it just says "we will not be silent". I got this t-shirt from Washington DC. There are more than a 1000 t-shirts printed with the same slogan, you can google them or email them at wewillnotbesilent@gmail.com . It is printed in many other languages: Arabic, Farsi, Spanish, English, etc." Inspector Harris said: "We cant make sure that your t-shirt means we will not be silent, we don't have a translator. Maybe it means something else". I said: "But as you can see, the statement is in both Arabic and English". He said "maybe it is not the same message". So based on the fact that Jet Blue doesn't have a translator, anything in Arabic is suspicious because maybe it'll mean something bad!

Meanwhile, a third man walked in our direction. He stood with us without introducing himself, and he looked at inspector Harris's notes and asks him: "is that his information?", inspector Harris answered "yes". The third man, Mr. Harmon, asks inspector Harris : "can I copy this information?", and inspector Harris says "yes, sure".

inspector Harris said: "You don't have to take of your t-shirt, just put it on inside-out". I refused to put on my shirt inside-out. So the woman interfered and said "let's reach a compromise. I will buy you a new t-shirt and you can put it on on top of this one". I said "I want to keep this t-shirt on". Both inspector Harris and Mr. Harmon said "No, we can't let you get on that airplane with your t-shirt". I said "I am ready to put on another t-shirt if you tell me what is the law that requires such a thing. I want to talk to your supervisor". Inspector Harris said "You don't have to talk to anyone. Many people called and complained about your t-shirt. Jetblue customers were calling before you reached the checkpoint, and costumers called when you were waiting here in the boarding area".

it was then that I realized that my t-shirt was the reason why I had been taken to the secondary checking.

I asked the four people again to let me talk to any supervisor, and they refused.

The Jet Blue woman was asking me again to end this problem by just putting on a new t-shirt, and I felt threatened by Mr. Harmon's remarks as in "Let's end this the nice way". Taking in consideration what happens to other Arabs and Muslims in US airports, and realizing that I will miss my flight unless I covered the Arabic script on my t-shirt as I was told by the four agents, I asked the Jet Blue woman to buy me a t-shirt and I said "I don't want to miss my flight."

She asked, what kind of t-shirts do you like. Should I get you an "I heart new york t-shirt?". So Mr. Harmon said "No, we shouldn't ask him to go from one extreme to another". I asked mr. harmon why does he assume I hate new york if I had some Arabic script on my t-shirt, but he didn't answer.

The woman went away for 3 minutes, and she came back with a gray t-shirt reading "new york". I put the t-shirt on and removed the price tag. I told the four people who were involved in the conversation: "I feel very sad that my personal freedom was taken away like this. I grew up under authoritarian governments in the Middle East, and one of the reasons I chose to move to the US was that I don't want an officer to make me change my t-shirt. I will pursue this incident today through a Constitutional rights organization, and I am sure we will meet soon". Everyone said okay and left, and I went back to my seat.

At 8:50 I was called again by a fourth young man, standing with the same jetblue woman. He asked for my boarding pass, so I gave it to him, and stood in front of the boarding counter. I asked the woman: "is everything okay?", she responded: "Yes, sure. We just have to change your seat". I said: "but I want this seat, that's why I chose it online 4 weeks ago", the fourth man said " there is a lady with a toddler sitting there. We need the seat."

Then they re-issued me a small boarding pass for seat 24a, instead of seat 3a. They said that I can go to the airplane now. I was the first person who entered the airplane, and I was really annoyed about being assigned this seat in the back of the airplane too. It smelled like the bathrooms, which is why I had originally chosen a seat which would be far from that area.

It sucks to be an Arab/Muslim living in the US these days. When you go to the middle east, you are a US tax-payer destroying people's houses with your money, and when you come back to the US, you are a suspected terrorist and plane hijacker.

source
« Last Edit: August 30, 2006, 03:45:23 PM by Sandman »
sand

Offline Gunslinger

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Man Forced to remove Arabic t-shirt
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2006, 03:42:07 PM »
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Originally posted by Sandman
Here's the thing though... if the shirt simply said "We Will Not Be Silent" and only said it in english, no one would have made a fuss.

They got their panties in a wad because of the arabic.


quite possibly because there is an threat out there....particularly at airports, airplanes and air travel.......involving people of islamic religion that are generally are arabic (and yes I know that pakis and Iranians arent arabic but I beleive the writing, to include farsi is similar)

So lets say there's some kind of black convention in some city who's had daily threats from race hate groups.  The convention is open to all and the city refuses to let a white guy with a shaved head wearing an arian propaganda T-shirt into the building for fear of cause a disturbance.......wrong or just common sense for the common good.

Offline wooley

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Man Forced to remove Arabic t-shirt
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2006, 03:44:26 PM »
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Originally posted by Shifty
Start with yourself.

The airline had the right to deny his access to thier aircraft.

Your the one who thinks only one side had rights or freedoms in this case.



I've already agreed it was the airline's choice.

Quote
Originally posted by Shifty
...knee jerk accusations against America.


You mean "accusations against the west". I though I had been clear that I wasn't just singling out America.

Look - you're absolutely right - the airline has to do what it thinks is best for the safety and well-being of its passengers and aircraft and I did say I thought the guy was a fool for wearing the t-shirt to an airport where he knew tensions were high. But can you honestly say the whole thing was not a series of complete over-reactions - firstly by the passengers complaining and subsequently by the airline / security staff?

Offline Shifty

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Man Forced to remove Arabic t-shirt
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2006, 03:48:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
Here's the thing though... if the shirt simply said "We Will Not Be Silent" and only said it in english, no one would have made a fuss.

They got their panties in a wad because of the arabic.


Exactly.

This country suffered greatly five years ago from young arab men who had their panties in a wad.  Mr Jarrar would not feel the need to wear a shirt like that if he'd get his own panties out of a wad.

JG-11"Black Hearts"...nur die Stolzen, nur die Starken

"Haji may have blown my legs off but I'm still a stud"~ SPC Thomas Vandeventer Delta1/5 1st CAV

Offline Gunslinger

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Man Forced to remove Arabic t-shirt
« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2006, 03:51:14 PM »
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It sucks to be an Arab/Muslim living in the US these days. When you go to the middle east, you are a US tax-payer destroying people's houses with your money, and when you come back to the US, you are a suspected terrorist and plane hijacker.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Well maybe that's because nearly every terrorist that has been arrested or committed a terrorist act in the western world has been an arab muslim or from the middle east.  To top it off you have the balls to wear a T-Shirt praising them.   If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck......




Free expression died back in the 90s when the PC movement took over.

 
That's precious.  Either way it sounds like the airline had a problem with it and asked security to help them out.  Don't I have a right NOT TO BE OFFENDED by a T-shirt?  Aren't schools operated by govt. funds and don't they have the right to enforce standards and send kids home who arent dressed appropriatly "denying their right to free expression"